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Old 05-19-2010, 06:44 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,482 posts, read 31,872,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel O. McClellan View Post
These concepts semantically overlapped a great deal by the time of the New Testament. This is why Luke 16:23-24 describes the rich man as being tormented by fire in Hades. According to your paradigm, Sheol/Hades shouldn't be accompanied by fiery torment. Additionally, many uses of שאול in the Old Testament are not translated with αδης in the New. שאול does not refer to the same concept as Hades every time. Trying to keep Hell and SHeol/Hades segregated is quite naive an approach, especially if the eternal nature of "hell" is your primary criteria.
Slam it as naive if you want, but the Bible is quite clear that Sheol/Hades are not the same place. In Revelation Hades is actually thrown into the lake of fire, so it ouldn't make any sense if they were the same place. Also, whether or not lake of fire is eternal really has nothing to do with the fact that they are two separate places. Yes, the rich man was tormented by fire in Hades, so there is fire, and there is fire in the third chamber if Hades too, Tartarus aka Abyss, where fallen angels are being tormented.
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Old 05-19-2010, 06:47 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,482 posts, read 31,872,436 times
Reputation: 9408
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
HiIf God is as you describe Him, so merciless and cold, then my mother is much more loving than Him.
Your mother? If you say so.....

You don't believe the Bible, so why bother writing at the Christian forum? If the Bible spells out that you will have everlasting life IF you believe in him, but if you don't believe you will perish. ok, you don't like that so you slam God as merciless and cold. You not liking it does not change what the Bible says.

Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 05-19-2010 at 07:13 AM..
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Old 05-19-2010, 07:12 AM
 
Location: Germany
1,647 posts, read 1,707,321 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
aionios=without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be 2) without beginning 3) without end, never to cease, everlasting
this is Strong's dictionary definition, not a conclusion of your own, even Mike555 agrees that Strong's is biased and based on the KJV (rather then what the words actually mean).

What Does the Bible Say about Hell? That It's a Place to Avoid!!!

if you look in Strong's dictionary you'll see that aionios has been translated with "world" in several instances (Romans 16:25, Titus 1:2, 2Timothy 1:9), this is of course wrong, but the world has both beginning and end according to the KJV, so the KJV translaters didn't understand aionios to denote endlessness in all instances, Strong does knowingly omit this fact.

you might want to look in a "real" dictionary:

Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, αἰŽν

Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, αἰŽνιο‚

you see it has many meanings and "eternal" is the most disputable one

Last edited by svenM; 05-19-2010 at 07:33 AM..
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Old 05-19-2010, 07:13 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,108,802 times
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Hi Finn,
I believe in God. I also believe in Jesus Christ, although I think perhaps it's not the Jesus Christ you believe in. And if I go to hell for it, I'll just be one more that God couldn't save I guess..
I also believe in the Bible. I believe that it has layers of truth in it, depending on where the reader is at. I know that this idea is heresy to you, and you have probably condemned me already in your heart for it. But I know that Jesus said not to condemn so that we don't become condemned ourselves.

I write here because I like to talk with people like yourself. Is that wrong?

Blessings,
brian
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Old 05-19-2010, 07:30 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,482 posts, read 31,872,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
I know that this idea is heresy to you, and you have probably condemned me already in your heart for it. But I know that Jesus said not to condemn so that we don't become condemned ourselves.
As you can see form your own comment, you are the only one who says anything about anyone condemnig someone.

Please refrain from accusing me of things I have not done. Thanks

I simply said that you don't believe what the Bible says about the matter, and you added the rest. The Bible says in plain English that you will perish unless you believe in Christ, and you don't believe it, so when I say you don't believe it, I am merely stating a fact.
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Old 05-19-2010, 07:33 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,482 posts, read 31,872,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post
this is Strong's dictionary definition, not a conclusion of your own, even Mike555 agrees that Strong's is biased and based on the KJV

What Does the Bible Say about Hell? That It's a Place to Avoid!!!

you might want to look in a "real" dictionary:

Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, αἰών

Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, αἰώνιος

you see it has many meanings and "eternal" is the most disputable one
LOL, if you don't like the translation, then keep looking until you find one that you like. heh-heh-heh
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Old 05-19-2010, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Germany
1,647 posts, read 1,707,321 times
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I prefer the Concordant New Testament and I like the Apostolic Interlinear bible, I am German btw so I do little care about the KJV, I'm often amazed about the cult Americans seem to have about the KJV

Concordant Publishing; Concordant Version

The Apostolic Bible Polyglot - Interlinear Greek Septuagint (LXX) & Greek New testamentt

@ Daniel O. McClellan

Quote:
Additionally, many uses of שאול in the Old Testament are not translated with αδης in the New.
could you give any references for this? in the Septuagint, sheol is translated with hades in every occurence as far as I know

Last edited by svenM; 05-19-2010 at 08:01 AM..
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Old 05-19-2010, 07:51 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,682,496 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
LOL, if you don't like the translation, then keep looking until you find one that you like. heh-heh-heh


True, this is why any translation works for me.
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Old 05-19-2010, 07:57 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,404,833 times
Reputation: 682
Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post
I prefer the Concordant New Testament and I like the Apostolic Interlinear bible, I am German btw so I do little care about the KJV, I'm often amazed about the cult Americans seem to have about the KJV

Concordant Publishing; Concordant Version

The Apostolic Bible Polyglot - Interlinear Greek Septuagint (LXX) & Greek New testamentt
People don't realize that the KJV has influenced many of the English bibles we have: NIV, NASB, NKJV, NLT, Amplified, etc.
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Old 05-19-2010, 08:06 AM
 
Location: Germany
1,647 posts, read 1,707,321 times
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Honestly, I almost have the impression that many people are not aware of the fact, that the KJV is not "the bible", that the bible was written in ancient languages and did not ever exist in English language and that the KJV is nothing but a pretty traditional and widespread translation, though far away from being inerrant or a very literal translation
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