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Old 05-12-2010, 01:39 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,406,571 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALMOST2L8 View Post
Yes, I do see a problem!! And it's not called mistranslation. It's called misinterperatation.


Ok. So you have this book you call the bible. It talks about this place using the English word "hell".

Then I show you another book, which is also the bible. But it doesn't talk about a place using the English word "hell". Instead it talks about a place called the "grave".


Are "hell" and the "grave" the same thing? Are they both the word of God? Is one of these books a misinterpretation? Which one? How do you know? And how can you say that one of them is not mistranslated? No matter how you spin it, the "grave" is not the same as "hell". This is where you need to research what the passages are actually saying and whether it matches the common ideas of what "hell" and the "grave" are.

For example, the KJV says God is in hell (Psalm 139:8). Does that sound right according to what you know and what the rest of scripture says?
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Old 05-12-2010, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Hagerman, Idaho
2,218 posts, read 4,840,480 times
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My feelings on this is that if it isn't coming from the original Hebrew or Aramaic I don't trust it. Greek is a "literal" language and it is well know that the church fathers had their way with the manuscripts having altered them in the greek to agree with their slants on how they wanted things believed in and followed. Hebrew on the other hand is NOT a literal language, and since the Torah and a good number of the Ketuvim Netzarim (the writings of the so called new testament) were also penned originally in the Hebrew and Aramaic) it is much more trustworthy to read translations that stem from THOSE languages as their true meanings and intent are more clear and honest. Hebrew in and of itself must be translated and read properly for proper context to be gleaned. In all too many cases the greek gets that completely wrong. (a classic case of this is Thessalonians and the falsh rapture doctrines). You may wish to check out the James Trimm Hebraic Roots Scriptures. His are very good and quite accurate in their translations.
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Old 05-12-2010, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
7,912 posts, read 8,485,373 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Yes. Mistranslations lead to verses having a forced meaning, sometimes rendering the verse to be complete nonsense:

KJV Jonah 2:6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.

Was Jonah really barred "forever"? Wasn't he just in the fish for 3 days?

YLT gives a more sane reading:
Jonah 2:6 To the cuttings of mountains I have come down, The earth, her bars [are] behind me to the age. And Thou bringest up from the pit my life, O Jehovah my God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
For example, the KJV says God is in hell (Psalm 139:8). Does that sound right according to what you know and what the rest of scripture says?
The problem with using the KJV as an example is that the english language has changed a bit since 1611.

IMO the KJV (which I don't use) was a well translated Bible at the time. But the English language evolved over time and the meanings of words have changed.

Note James 5:11;

KJV-- Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

NKJV---Indeed we count them blessed who endure. You have heard of the perseverance of Job and seen the end intended by the Lord—that the Lord is very compassionate and merciful.

Pitiful to the modern ear means weak or useless. Not a very accurate description of God. Also the use of "which" instead of "who" is poor grammar according to 21st century standards.

And what's with "the end of Lord"? I though God was eternal,
****************
Also please check out 1Kings 21:21 in the KJV---the way the term male is rendered will set off the potty mouth filters on this site.
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Old 05-12-2010, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Rapid City, SD
723 posts, read 858,606 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post


Ok. So you have this book you call the bible. It talks about this place using the English word "hell".

Then I show you another book, which is also the bible. But it doesn't talk about a place using the English word "hell". Instead it talks about a place called the "grave".


Are "hell" and the "grave" the same thing? Are they both the word of God? Is one of these books a misinterpretation? Which one? How do you know? And how can you say that one of them is not mistranslated? No matter how you spin it, the "grave" is not the same as "hell". This is where you need to research what the passages are actually saying and whether it matches the common ideas of what "hell" and the "grave" are.

For example, the KJV says God is in hell (Psalm 139:8). Does that sound right according to what you know and what the rest of scripture says?
What if I said that grave and hell to me mean the same thing??? To me there is no difference in the words, only it's interperatation.


GOD BLESS!!!
DALE
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Old 05-12-2010, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Rapid City, SD
723 posts, read 858,606 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
I disagree with significant mistranslation issues, even though I argued from that point of view for a while to see if it had any merit.

It doesn't, all issues are issues of intepretation and context.

Aionios is the primary one to talk about.

It pertains to the age in an absolute sense and is everlasting in the abstract sense (how we can percieve time).


For instance, the phrase "That stop light took forever" We all know that we are not talking absolutely forever, but how we perceived time at the moment. While enduring the horribly long stop light, you could not absolutely know when it was going to change.

When your favorite show only last 30 mins you want more, it went by very quickly. Try holding a heavy book in your hand and stretch out your arm at a right angle from your body for 30 mins.


This is why it is still important to teach good behavior and righteousness.

I certainly do not rely on arguments such as mistraslation, they are not necessary at all.
Thank you, Phazel. Again I don't see mistranslation as the problem only ones interperatation. It IS most important to teach good behavior and righteousness!!

(Psalm119:172) "My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness."

LOL I know you don't agree with that part!!


GOD BLESS!!!
DALE
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Old 05-12-2010, 02:02 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,406,571 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALMOST2L8 View Post
What if I said that grave and hell to me mean the same thing??? To me there is no difference in the words, only it's interperatation.
Then I would say you are confused.

"hell" as commonly understood today means a place of eternal suffering in fire. Or in slang terminology it may refer to something that caused suffering. ie. that exam was hell...

"grave" as commonly understood today means a place where dead bodies go in the ground, or possibly a tomb.

Furthermore, "hell" didn't always mean a place of eternal suffering in fire. Hundreds of years ago, it had a much more benign meaning of to "cover" or "conceal", which is where the word "helmet" gets it meaning.
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Old 05-12-2010, 02:05 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,406,571 times
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Interesting history on the word "hell" from thefreedictionary.com:

Word History: Hell comes to us directly from Old English hel. Because the Roman Church prevailed in England from an early date, the Romanthat is, Mediterraneanbelief that hell was hot prevailed there too; in Old English hel is a black and fiery place of eternal torment for the damned. But because the Vikings were converted to Christianity centuries after the Anglo-Saxons, the Old Norse hel, from the same source as Old English hel, retained its earlier pagan senses as both a place and a person. As a place, hel is the abode of oathbreakers, other evil persons, and those unlucky enough not to have died in battle. It contrasts sharply with Valhalla, the hall of slain heroes. Unlike the Mediterranean hell, the Old Norse hel is very cold. Hel is also the name of the goddess or giantess who presides in hel, the half blue-black, half white daughter of Loki and the giantess Angrbotha. The Indo-European root behind these Germanic words is *kel-, "to cover, conceal" (so hell is the "concealed place"); it also gives us hall, hole, hollow, and helmet.
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Old 05-12-2010, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Rapid City, SD
723 posts, read 858,606 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Then I would say you are confused.

"hell" as commonly understood today means a place of eternal suffering in fire. Or in slang terminology it may refer to something that caused suffering. ie. that exam was hell...

"grave" as commonly understood today means a place where dead bodies go in the ground, or possibly a tomb.

Furthermore, "hell" didn't always mean a place of eternal suffering in fire. Hundreds of years ago, it had a much more benign meaning of to "cover" or "conceal", which is where the word "helmet" gets it meaning.

It is man that is confused. That is my point in this thread. Hell commonly "UNDERSTOOD" or in other words "INTERPERATATED" !!

GOD BLESS!!!
DALE
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Old 05-12-2010, 02:37 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,683,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALMOST2L8 View Post
Thank you, Phazel. Again I don't see mistranslation as the problem only ones interperatation. It IS most important to teach good behavior and righteousness!!

(Psalm119:172) "My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness."

LOL I know you don't agree with that part!!


GOD BLESS!!!
DALE

I am not sure what you mean about what I do not agree with, would you eleborate please?
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Old 05-12-2010, 02:42 PM
juj
 
Location: Too far from MSG
1,657 posts, read 2,284,523 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Blue View Post
I believe the books of the bible were written by good men. inspired men, men who believed in the creator and men who were learned enough to also write down the ancient stories told generation after generation by other inspired people about the ONE creator, not the many different Gods people were worshipping and sacrificing to..

In my own opinion (which of course I do not feel any obligation to force on anyone), the bible as it has been translated over and over again is mans word, inspired men, but mans words...

Gods word is written in our hearts..And no, I do not pick and choose what to believe about the scriptures..I leave that to the Holy Spirit everytime I open the bible I ask for His guidance and His interpretations of the inspirational writings of man..
Miss Blue, that sounds really good on the surface. The problem is every protestant operates that way and hence you get the tens of thousands of denominations. The Holy Spirit seems to be changing his mind on things.
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