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Old 05-15-2010, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Mark 13:24-26 "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory."

Acts 1:9-11 "And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."

These seem to pretty clearly speak of an actual physical return. And then, of course, there's Revelation, but I'm not up to discussing Revelation today.
He left hidden in a cloud (out of their sight) so why would his return be visible? Why would they be amiss at looking up when he would return in like manner unless looking up wouldn't do any good because he was out of their sight leaving and will be out of their sight when returning.

Just some thoughts to ponder.
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Old 05-15-2010, 10:55 AM
 
Location: RV Park
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Mark 13:24-26 "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory."
Two trains of thought concerning this. Some say it this speaks of the tribulation that has come upon the Jews beginning in A.D. 70 with the destruction of the temple by the Roman general Titus, bringing the termination of the Jewish nation and the final and complete end of the Old Covenant of Law with its priesthood and sacrificial order. The writings of the Jewish historian, Josephus, outline the history of the incredibly horrible events of that time. History records how the Christians escaped from Judea, just as Jesus foretold. This reference is repeated in Mark 13:24.

Personally, I read "carnal mind" when speaking of the destruction in the heavens, which after the carnal mind has been renewed you see Christ, for you have His mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Acts 1:9-11 "And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."
Realize that Christ is that same spirit that fell at Pentecost (2 Cor 3:17).

"This same Jesus shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into heaven?" And now, when the Day of Pentecost had fully come, suddenly there came from heaven a sound as of a rushing mighty wind...and there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost..." Ah, it was the fulfillment of the messenger's promise to them, this same Jesus had returned in Spirit power, they heard Him come, and they saw Him come from heaven, even as they had seen Him go into heaven. Their minds were now enlightened with a better understanding of those things yet to come in the outworking of the Father's plan and purpose. They had been assured that their Lord would return. The angel had said that "this same" Jesus shall so come "in like manner" as they had seen Him taken into heaven. But not until the Spirit of the ascended Lord came upon them at Pentecost did they begin to understand the meaning of His "return."

This is not of course the limit of His manifestation, for His plan is to embody His people for a great outpouring on the earth. Is God's heart to send His spirit to save and be glorified through His people, or to wreck the physical planet and kill most everybody?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
These seem to pretty clearly speak of an actual physical return. And then, of course, there's Revelation, but I'm not up to discussing Revelation today.
There's a lot that ties into this (of course) there as well.
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Old 05-15-2010, 11:19 AM
 
309 posts, read 295,253 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
Two trains of thought concerning this. Some say it this speaks of the tribulation that has come upon the Jews beginning in A.D. 70 with the destruction of the temple by the Roman general Titus, bringing the termination of the Jewish nation and the final and complete end of the Old Covenant of Law with its priesthood and sacrificial order. The writings of the Jewish historian, Josephus, outline the history of the incredibly horrible events of that time. History records how the Christians escaped from Judea, just as Jesus foretold. This reference is repeated in Mark 13:24.

Personally, I read "carnal mind" when speaking of the destruction in the heavens, which after the carnal mind has been renewed you see Christ, for you have His mind.



Realize that Christ is that same spirit that fell at Pentecost (2 Cor 3:17).

"This same Jesus shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into heaven?" And now, when the Day of Pentecost had fully come, suddenly there came from heaven a sound as of a rushing mighty wind...and there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost..." Ah, it was the fulfillment of the messenger's promise to them, this same Jesus had returned in Spirit power, they heard Him come, and they saw Him come from heaven, even as they had seen Him go into heaven. Their minds were now enlightened with a better understanding of those things yet to come in the outworking of the Father's plan and purpose. They had been assured that their Lord would return. The angel had said that "this same" Jesus shall so come "in like manner" as they had seen Him taken into heaven. But not until the Spirit of the ascended Lord came upon them at Pentecost did they begin to understand the meaning of His "return."

This is not of course the limit of His manifestation, for His plan is to embody His people for a great outpouring on the earth. Is God's heart to send His spirit to save and be glorified through His people, or to wreck the physical planet and kill most everybody?



There's a lot that ties into this (of course) there as well.
Little Elmer....

This is a very eye-opening thing you are stating. I too believe that just about all things said and did of Christ were to be discerned in a "spiritual" manner. He spoke parables to multitudes, but they had a spiritual meaning. He physically healed the blind and deaf, but this to had a spiritual meaning. I also believe the "tongues" that were spoken were to be understood in a spiritual manner (I believe it is nothing what most think it is) Boy oh boy.... we can talk much on this L.Elmer.
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