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Old 05-16-2010, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,475 posts, read 31,862,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Yep, we are! (And, by the way, just because Jehovah Witnesses are off in much, this part they understood. The reason why we have these "cults" out there is because SOMEBODY got frustrated and saw and understood something that TRADITION would NOT ADMIT was wrong, and, figuring that if they were right about that, decided to go their own way, because maybe tradition was wrong about EVERYTHING......I do not go so far as to throw out ALL that tradition believes, but I will use my God-given brain and start studying for myself!)

Hades: Greek underworld

Hel: Goddess of the Germanic Underworld.

Sheol: Grave

If you notice, throughout the ENTIRE Old Testament, which is the ONLY SCRIPTURE that was around when Jesus was talking to "New Testament" folks obviously, the word used was the HEBREW word, Sheol.

This was translated "Hell" in many places when the Catholic church got hold of things: When they did, "Hell," which in the Old English just means "covering," they started attaching the PAGAN UNDERWORLD meaning to it, to put the peasants into stark-raving-mad, fear-like, blind-faith obedience to the ONE TRUE CHURCH. Kind of like what the Muslims do, I guess.

(as you can tell by the "ONE TRUE CHURCH'S" priest's and popes behavior over the centuries, the priests and popes don't believe in the Traditional Greek Underworld any more than I do.")

HELL NEVER HAD ANY OTHER MEANING IN THE ENGLISH BESIDES "COVERING!"

If ANYBODY would read my link that I attached above, THE TRUE MEANING OF THE WORD SHEOL WOULD BECOME CLEAR!

IT MATTERS HOW THE HEBREWS UNDERSTOOD THE AFTERLIFE!

And, I would NOT ask a Jew today what the Rabbi thinks of the afterlife. They were ALREADY mixed up by the time Jesus came. They had ALREADY brought a lot of pagan thought into their belief system, which is why Jesus was talking to them the way He was! He used their stupidity about His character against them! God will NOT be mocked!

If anybody wants to study these things: STUDY THE OLD TESTAMENT USE AND UNDERSTANDING OF THE AFTERLIFE!!! Again, these would have been the scriptures that the folks in "New Testament" times were studying when Jesus showed up!

This link about Sheol/Hell has nothing to do with the Restoration of All Things (UR), but here it is again: All about Sheol and hell
I don't care what people or KJV calls it, but the Bible describes Sheol aka Hades clearly and whoever studies the Bible will understand what it means. Sheol/Hades is not eternal place of punishment, the lake of fire is. They are not the same place.

Bickering over words and their translations is an old tactic used by people who are trying to prove that Bible is inconsistent.
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Old 05-16-2010, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,379,961 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I don't care what people or KJV calls it, but the Bible describes Sheol aka Hades clearly and whoever studies the Bible will understand what it means. Sheol/Hades is not eternal place of punishment, the lake of fire is. They are not the same place.

Bickering over words and their translations is an old tactic used by people who are trying to prove that Bible is inconsistent.
Unfortunately, the priests, popes, preachers, teachers, and translators have made the Bible inconsistent.

Does it still have THE GOOD NEWS? Is most of it in pretty good shape? Am I starting to understand it's message, finally? Yes, to all three questions!!

WE COULD NOT HAVE THE DIVISION THAT WE HAVE IN CHRISTIANITY IF THE BIBLE HAD BEEN CLEARLY AND PERFECTLY TRANSLATED!

And, no, the Bible does NOT describe Sheol aka Hades clearly!!

Please, I BEG OF YOU, read the link below and explain to me HOW ON GOD"S GREEN EARTH did priests, popes, preachers and teachers come to believe that the Old Testament Sheol meant the Greek Underworld Hades!!??


All about Sheol and hell
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Old 05-16-2010, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,475 posts, read 31,862,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Unfortunately, the priests, popes, preachers, teachers, and translators have made the Bible inconsistent.


All about Sheol and hell
Then I would encourage you to read the Bible for yourself and learn the truth.

It just dawned to me that you don't even know what I am trying to tell you. You are too eager to promote the idea that priests, popes, preachers, teachers, and translators are all wrong, but you got it all right.

There is nothing new in your link.
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Old 05-16-2010, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,379,961 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Then I would encourage you to read the Bible for yourself and learn the truth.
After you read the link, please tell me what exactly you disagree with.

This is a link from a die-hard evangelical christian group, not UR folks.
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Old 05-16-2010, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,475 posts, read 31,862,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
After you read the link, please tell me what exactly you disagree with.

This is a link from a die-hard evangelical christian group, not UR folks.
Disagree with what? Have I said I disagree with something?

Let me repeat this: It just dawned to me that you don't even know what I am trying to tell you. You are too eager to promote the idea that priests, popes, preachers, teachers, and translators are all wrong, but you got it right.

If you KNOW WHAT SHEOL IS THEN WHY DO YOU WORRY ABOUT KJV TRANSLATION????

The only people who cling to such things are those who are on a mission to discredit the Bible.

The Bible explains what Sheol and Hades mean, so why should we care about KJV translation?? You admitted you know Sheol/Hades IS NOT same as lake of fire, and you seem to know what Sheol/Hades are, so where's the beef?
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Old 05-16-2010, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,379,961 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Disagree with what? Have I said I disagree with something?

Let me repeat this: It just dawned to me that you don't even know what I am trying to tell you. You are too eager to promote the idea that priests, popes, preachers, teachers, and translators are all wrong, but you got it right.

If you KNOW WHAT SHEOL IS THEN WHY DO YOU WORRY ABOUT KJV TRANSLATION????

The only people who cling to such things are those who are on a mission to discredit the Bible.

The Bible explains what Sheol and Hades mean, so why should we care about KJV translation?? You admitted you know Sheol/Hades IS NOT same as lake of fire, and you seem to know what Sheol/Hades are, so where's the beef?
I am posting because OTHERS do NOT know that HELL is also SHEOL and that SHEOL could NOT have the same meaning behind it as HADES does!

Sheol aka Hades DOES NOT MEAN THE SAME THING! That's my beef! There is NO Greek abode (split between the "good" and "bad") for people when they die! That is what I am trying to say! That is pure paganism! The translators translated so badly that now when the THE PREACHERS and PRIESTS say: LOOK! LOOK at all the HELL in the BIBLE, THEY LIE! They KNOW what people have been taught (lied, too, more or less) and they know that people attach something stupid to this word! When the word doesn't even mean anything bad!

OOOHHHH!!! HELL!!!!! TERRIBLE!!!!! NOT!

That is what I am mad about! Amongst MANY other things.

You are starting to remind me of Mike555. It seems to me that you already know something, but you hang around and try and confuse ignorant people, and then you act like you and EVERYBODY else knew things all along, and ask what the big deal was! Either you knew and were trying to confuse people, or you didn't know and won't admit it.

What confusion and darkness!

If you want to post something on the Lake of Fire in this thread, or any other word that pops into your brain, I would be happy to discuss that with you also. But, the first post of the thread, THAT I STARTED, has to do with the word "Hell" and how it was translated and what it means.

Gehenna
Hades/Sheol, which do not have the same meaning as my link PROVES!
Tartarus

L. Ray Smith - Lake of Fire - Part 16-B

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Old 05-16-2010, 04:22 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,475 posts, read 31,862,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
I am posting because OTHERS do NOT know that HELL is also SHEOL and that SHEOL could NOT have the same meaning behind it as HADES does!
In biblical Greek Hades is the same thing as Sheol. Yes, you can find other writings about Hades, but in the Bible, and in biblical Greek, it means the same thing as Sheol. So, when you read NT, and see the word 'Hades" you know they mean Sheol, the adobe of the dead.

The word 'hell', much like the word 'homosexual' were coined later and then applied to existing concepts.

PS There are two chambers in Sheol/Hades, the good side and the bad side.
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Old 05-16-2010, 04:28 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,379,961 times
Reputation: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
In biblical Greek Hades is the same thing as Sheol. Yes, you can find other writings about Hades, but in the Bible, and in biblical Greek, it means the same thing as Sheol. So, when you read NT, and see the word 'Hades" you know they mean Sheol, the adobe of the dead.

The word 'hell', much like the word 'homosexual' were coined later and then applied to existing concepts.
Finn_Jarber, I do not think you are READING my posts: Either that or you are not UNDERSTANDING them.

This is what you just said above: "PS There are two chambers in Sheol/Hades, the good side and the bad side." THAT IS WHAT MY POSTS HAVE BEEN REFUTING!

My posts have been about Sheol/Hades and why they CANNOT have the SAME MEANING BEHIND THEM!

The abode of the dead! GRAVES! It simply CANNOT mean anything else besides "the dead are sleeping." JUST AS JESUS SAID!

Your above response is exactly why I keep asking you to read my link on why SHEOL CANNOT HAVE THE SAME MEANING AS HADES!!!

This link is from what looks to be an evangelical christian website; they actually started STUDYING and UNDERSTANDING that much of what Christianity teaches concerning the afterlife is bonkers.

All about Sheol and hell
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Old 05-16-2010, 04:46 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,475 posts, read 31,862,344 times
Reputation: 9406
Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Finn_Jarber, I do not think you are READING my posts: Either that or you are not UNDERSTANDING them.

This is what you just said above: "PS There are two chambers in Sheol/Hades, the good side and the bad side." THAT IS WHAT MY POSTS HAVE BEEN REFUTING!
So far you have failed to prove your points. You have not said anything to refute the teo chambers of Sheol/Hades, you have only managed to say that there are no two chambers. That is easy enough to say, but you need to prove that the New Testament lied about it.

What if I told you there are actually three chambers, the third one is called Tartarus, aka the "Abyss" which is reserved for fallen angels.
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Old 05-16-2010, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,475 posts, read 31,862,344 times
Reputation: 9406
Here is a good illustration with supporting Bible veses.

Ilene, pay attention to the "all knees will bend" part.




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