U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-14-2010, 11:58 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,750,368 times
Reputation: 58198

Advertisements

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Actually it just means that there will be a judgement day and everyone will bow and confess in front of God's judgement seat.

And then everyone will be judged as described in Revelation:


And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
The verses I quoted have nothing to do with judgment day. So you have no argument there. All will bow, ALL will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

Romans 10:9
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

ALL will confess, and ALL will be saved. That's exactly what it says. ALL will not be confessing something they do not believe. EVERYONE will believe it and be reconciled after their time of refinement.

Quote:
Jesus himself said there is no such thing as a good person, and that one must be born again into the spirit (John 3:1-7, I Pet. 1:23, ) in order to be saved, and that is a personal chose. There is no other way. Anyone who says otherwise is spreading false teachings.

I John 5:11-13 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
Right. There is no such thing as a "good" person....we all have sinned and fallen short of His glory. Yes, we must be born again and believe in and love Jesus with all of our heart, mind, body and spirit.....no one is saying otherwise. Jesus is the ONLY way to salvation. He is the only way we will make it to "heaven" without being tried in the "fire", God's spiritual fire. Anyone who says otherwise IS spreading false teachings. See, we're on the same page in that area.

What we not on the same page about is what happens to those who do not accept Jesus as Savior in this lifetime. Why do you think that all hope is lost after we die? Did not Jesus go to Hades (hell) after He died and before He arose and preach the gospel to those who were in hell? They got a second chance, so why are you saying that everyone else won't have that same chance? If they still refuse, don't you think that God is powerful enough to override their stubbornness? He IS, and He WILL. No one life on this planet, now or in the past, will be in vain. We will all have a chance to be with our Creator.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-14-2010, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Seward, Alaska
2,739 posts, read 7,644,888 times
Reputation: 1963
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabfest View Post
shout it from the roof tops!!!!

...if your faith is not producing the works of Love in your life, there's something wrong and "needs examining...hallelujah

may the lord bless and keep you.

AMEN, AMEN, and AMEN!!!


Bud
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-14-2010, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Seward, Alaska
2,739 posts, read 7,644,888 times
Reputation: 1963
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
" 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord,
'every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.'
"
12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.


So what does that mean? It means ALL will be reconciled!!! It means ALL will give an account of their lives and those who did not accept Jesus as Savior in their lifetime will be given an allotted time in the "spiritual fire" of God to be refined. Some it may be a thousand years, for some it may be a day.....however long it takes to burn off the impurities. But make no mistake, it is God's desire for ALL men to be saved, and God ALWAYS gets what He desires.

(

I think you are reading something into this that just isn't there. What I see, in that scripture, is that one day everyone will have to ACKNOWLEDGE that God is real, and bow before Him. That Jesus is indeed Lord and not some made-up myth, not that "everyone will be saved". I think it simply means everyone will have to acknowledge God as being God...as being real, whether they were an athiest, agnostic, whatever, during their life on earth. Furthermore, we all will have to give an account of our actions, good or bad, to the Lord...

Bud
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-14-2010, 01:34 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,750,368 times
Reputation: 58198
That's what I used to think too, Bud.....that the universalists were reading something into everything. But there is no denying what this scripture says....All means all. I used to think that everyone would be doing this from their respective places in heaven or hell, but that makes absolutely no sense. This is not just about "acknowledging" that God is God....I think everyone will be doing that anyway, no problem. This is about way more than that. This is about "serving" and the only way to serve God is to be free from bondage. All will be refined, and all will be serving God in one respect or another. God desires all men to be saved, and they will.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-14-2010, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
26,222 posts, read 14,105,516 times
Reputation: 10095
It's all about relationship, not deeds.

Technically speaking - if you have the Holy Spirit, you are one with Christ - and you are saved.

The Spirit is sent from Christ as a result of one's true belief in the gospel.

1 John 5:1 - Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God

Through belief, one is born into the family of God.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-14-2010, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,686,435 times
Reputation: 528
[quote=Ilene Wright;14176259]
Quote:

Why do you think that all hope is lost after we die? Did not Jesus go to Hades (hell) after He died and before He arose and preach the gospel to those who were in hell? They got a second chance, so why are you saying that everyone else won't have that same chance? If they still refuse, don't you think that God is powerful enough to override their stubbornness? He IS, and He WILL. No one life on this planet, now or in the past, will be in vain. We will all have a chance to be with our Creator.
The word "preached" in 1 Peter 3 is the Greek word kerusso which means to proclaim or herald. Jesus was not evangelizing. He was making a proclamation or an announcement of the good news and proclaiming liberty to the captives. Those who died before Christ went to the cross went to hades. Those who put their faith in God went to one side, where they were comforted. This side was known as Abraham's bosom (See Luke 16:25). Those who did not put their faith in God went to the other side where there was torment (verses 24-25 ). The two sides were separated by a great gulf (verse 26). He went to the faithful who were waiting for Him in Abraham’s bosom. They were in prison in the sense that they could not enter heaven until their sins were paid for. The Bible doesn't say you get a second chance after death.

Those who put their faith in God were in Hades but they weren’t going to stay there forever. David had hope that God would lead him out of Hades when he said:

“You will not leave my soul in Hades, nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.” (Acts 2:27)

Last edited by CantWait2Leave; 05-14-2010 at 02:05 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-14-2010, 02:00 PM
 
6,230 posts, read 9,517,266 times
Reputation: 7521
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohKnip View Post
i know you have to accept jesus as your lord and savior to make it into heaven but is it really this way?

2 examples

1. rapist/murder gets sent to prison but before he is executed he truly confesses all his sins he is sent to heaven?

2. (hypothetical situation) so some guy comes up with the cure for cancer is charitable all his life never harmed a soul and loved everyone he knew with all of his being, but he is atheist...hes burns in hell?

i know its supposed to be yes and yes to both questions but am i a bad person for having a hard time accepting that you could have done the worst thing ever been the worst person ever but right as your about to die completely ask for forgiveness and give yourself to god your all good but if you dont believe no matter how great you were in life hell for you?
1. In my personal opinion, I don't believe the rapist gets into the gates of heaven. Because he has to be judged first and foremost. Second, his whole life he wasn't a Christian and on his deathbed, that is when he decided to become one? I don't think God will buy that argument. The rapist obviously was just trying to sure-fire his way into Heaven on his deathbed but when he was alive and well and did his heinous acts on Earth, he wasn't repenting for his sins.. That is very fake to me. I don't buy it.

2. Now about this guy I would not know. In my personal opinion, I think there is a slight chance he could be saved because of the good will he did and the dependability on if he was good in his heart. Because there are alot of people in powerful, charitable and scientific positions on Earth that have made giant leaps for mankind but are not necessarily good in their hearts. They may have another agenda that they wish to accomplish. Control may be one. Money might be another. It all depends on what is in his heart. And that is what I think he will be judged in. Now, if he did all that but ridiculed God or the idea of a God while he was alive then he might be in for trouble. I don't know if that will count against him but it surely won't look good in God's eyes when he remembers what you said.

This is why I am so disheartened when I go by the Atheist section. It's not their unbelief in God that bothers me. It's the comments. The disrespect and persecution they make. If I was an Atheist, I would just say hey, I don't know if God exist or not, but for now I will just say he doesn't until I'm proven otherwise. I would never say something like "God isn't real. He's an a-hole, a fluke, flying spaghetti monster, etc." just in the small case he turns out to be real and I'm screwed because I ridiculed and belittled him.

Well anyway, that is just my 2 cents.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-14-2010, 02:08 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,434,483 times
Reputation: 989
[quote=CantWait2Leave;14178220]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post

The word "preached" in 1 Peter 3 is the Greek word kerusso which means to proclaim or herald. Jesus was not evangelizing. He was making a proclamation or an announcement of the good news and proclaiming liberty to the captives. Those who died before Christ went to the cross went to hades. Those who put their faith in God went to one side, where they were comforted. This side was known as Abraham's bosom (See Luke 16:25). Those who did not put their faith in God went to the other side where there was torment (verses 24-25 ). The two sides were separated by a great gulf (verse 26). He went to the faithful who were waiting for Him in Abraham’s bosom. They were in prison in the sense that they could not enter heaven until their sins were paid for. The Bible doesn't say you get a second chance after death.

Those who put their faith in God were in Hades but they weren’t going to stay there forever. David had hope that God would lead him out of Hades when he said:

“You will not leave my soul in Hades, nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.” (Acts 2:27)
Jesus could not possibly have been alive in some other form while dead.

It was only after He was made alive that He went to the **spirits** in prison. Humans are never said to be spirits but souls.

Jesus did not go to heaven while He was dead. He said so Himself AFTER He arose from the dead. he said "Not as yet have I ascended to the Father" to Mary after He came out of the tomb.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-14-2010, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,686,435 times
Reputation: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohKnip View Post
i know you have to accept jesus as your lord and savior to make it into heaven but is it really this way?

2 examples

1. rapist/murder gets sent to prison but before he is executed he truly confesses all his sins he is sent to heaven?

2. (hypothetical situation) so some guy comes up with the cure for cancer is charitable all his life never harmed a soul and loved everyone he knew with all of his being, but he is atheist...hes burns in hell?

i know its supposed to be yes and yes to both questions but am i a bad person for having a hard time accepting that you could have done the worst thing ever been the worst person ever but right as your about to die completely ask for forgiveness and give yourself to god your all good but if you dont believe no matter how great you were in life hell for you?
1. Yes! God doesn't say the rapist/murderer can't be forgiven, but the liar and thief can.

2. Yes, because there is an unpardonable sin. Good deeds do not get you into heaven which is why the rapist/murderer who asks for forgiveness will be saved.

"Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come" Matthew 12:31-32
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-14-2010, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,686,435 times
Reputation: 528
[quote=Eusebius;14178469]
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave View Post

Jesus could not possibly have been alive in some other form while dead.

It was only after He was made alive that He went to the **spirits** in prison. Humans are never said to be spirits but souls.

Jesus did not go to heaven while He was dead. He said so Himself AFTER He arose from the dead. he said "Not as yet have I ascended to the Father" to Mary after He came out of the tomb.
Indeed He didn't go to heaven while He was dead. This is why Mary couldn't hold onto Jesus (John 20:17).

We are off topic though...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top