U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 05-17-2010, 04:11 AM
 
701 posts, read 658,538 times
Reputation: 128

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
When I first started studying UR, those were my questions. They are very difficult questions!

Why do YOU think God put the most cunning, manipulative, murderous, lying creature that ever existed with two of the most innocent and ignorant creatures that ever existed?? (if you do, indeed, believe in the traditional Satan and Adam and Eve story).

If you read the link below it will explain some of this. I wouldn't mind if somebody could try and refute what this guy is saying. I can't, really.

L. Ray Smith - Lake of Fire - part 2

I personally believe that we were to see what happens when humanity tries to run things! A lesson NO ONE will forget!

But, I do believe that everyone will reap what they sow! Everyone!

Anyway,much of what is going on hera has to do with FAITH! Some of us are in training; the elect, I believe. Faith produces better soldiers. If you follow Him HERE of all places, where you CANT even SEE Him, and are in miserable conditions, why wouldn't you follow Him when you DO finally see HIM, and are in BETTER conditions.

He needs those elect to help Him rule and reign. Who and what will we be ruling and reigning over?

By the way, people were so scared of Saul before he became Paul that they wouldn't believe him when he said he had converted. Didn't want him around.

Christ was MURDERED rather gruesomly by a vicious group of men who spit on Him, mocked Him, and nailed Him to a tree!!!!

What were some of His last words??

Father, forgive them! Did His dad forgive them?

Well I didn't have to read far to find error in that site. It seems to be built upon the presumption that God purposes all that happens. God did not want Adam and Eve to sin but He foresaw that it would happen and had a plan already in place. People far to many times think that because God states before hand that something will take place, that He then sets out to make it take place, and that is just wrong presumptuous thinking. It is hard for us to sometimes understand a God who sees the end from the beginning, because we are stuck with our human train of thought. It is interesting to see how many people out there don't seem to realize how much goes on that God never wanted to happen. He always has a plan when it does happen outside His plan, but He would always rather it have happened His way the first time, for His ways are always the best ways.

As for your question about what we will rule over, you just have to go back to Genesis. What were we to rule over in God's original creation? It sure as heck was never other people. We were to have dominion over the earth and its animals. And what text gave you the idea that God has ever needed help ruling?

When Christ said "Father, forgive them" who was He talking about? Was it the Pharisees who knew full well what they were doing? Or might it have been the Roman soldiers who knew nothing of a Messiah and jewish prophecy, but might later have repented after learning the truth from maybe Peter or Paul?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-17-2010, 08:42 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,685,493 times
Reputation: 639
People make threads saying "This place or that place refutes UR"

This latest article bases it's content upon a false premise, as most of them do. Christian Universalism is not the same as Unitarian Universalism, so what does the article actually refute?

The article is a strawman against both.

First, Unitarian Universalism does not claim a biblical basis in the first place, so trying to use scripture to refute something that does not claim to have a biblical basis is false.

Secondly, Christian Universalism has always recognized that Christ is the only way, so an article that tries to claim that it makes Jesus irrevalent is false.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2010, 09:14 AM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,558,523 times
Reputation: 4461
Right - the restitution of all things is centered and built upon the foundation of Jesus Christ, and His death and resurrection.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2010, 09:42 AM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,722,144 times
Reputation: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfNelson View Post
First of all I know all about what hell means in scripture and that is why I do not believe in ET, nor do I believe in an immortal soul that can exist without a physical body. I strongly suggest this site if you would like to know what I believe The Bible Truth About Hades and Hell Fire

As to the part about love, I ask you how do you reconcile that with this passage from Revelation 20:11-15?

11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
I'm not clear on your question (in red). Since we agree about ET, I'm not sure what you are asking me regarding Rev. 20:11-15. Do you believe in annihilation and you're asking me how I reconcile that with God's love? Thanks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2010, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Florida
580 posts, read 632,408 times
Reputation: 149
Just adding...
Luke 11:42 "Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God. You should have practiced the latter without leaving the former undone.
John 5:42
but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts.
Romans 8:39
neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
2 Corinthians 13:14 May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.
Titus 3:4
But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared,
1 John 3:17 If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him?
Ephesians 1:18
I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints,
Who puts the "love of God in your heart to love Him? Who makes the love you have for Him grow? Jesus
Who begins your faith and who finishes your faith? Jesus
So if i pray for your heart, who will answer the prayer? God
Before we preach, do we not ask for hearts to be softened? And who delivers the softened hearts to hear? God
And by which power leads you to prayer? Holy Spirit
And by whose Name that is above all names do we pray and the only name that has power? Jesus
And who are we a new creation in? Christ
What kind of decision of ours can love? None
Galatians 5:22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
This fruit is not even your own, it is of the Spirit and love is the first of the fruit.

Luke 1:17 And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the parents to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."
1 Corinthians 2:5 so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God's power.


1 Corinthians 4:20 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of talk but of power.
Ephesians 3:7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God's grace given me through the working of his power.
Ephesians 3:20 Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us,
2 Timothy 1:7 For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love and self-discipline.
2 Peter 1:3
[ Confirming One's Calling and Election ] His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.

God Bless,
Mercy
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2010, 11:56 AM
 
701 posts, read 658,538 times
Reputation: 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
I'm not clear on your question (in red). Since we agree about ET, I'm not sure what you are asking me regarding Rev. 20:11-15. Do you believe in annihilation and you're asking me how I reconcile that with God's love? Thanks.
Yes, I do believe in annihilation, but what I was specifically referring to was the text you quoted stating "love keeps no record of wrongs" and how that is then reconciled with the part of Rev 20:12 which I underlined that says "And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books."

I understand fully that God is love, but He is also just.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2010, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,382,552 times
Reputation: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfNelson View Post
Well I didn't have to read far to find error in that site. It seems to be built upon the presumption that God purposes all that happens. God did not want Adam and Eve to sin but He foresaw that it would happen and had a plan already in place. People far to many times think that because God states before hand that something will take place, that He then sets out to make it take place, and that is just wrong presumptuous thinking. It is hard for us to sometimes understand a God who sees the end from the beginning, because we are stuck with our human train of thought. It is interesting to see how many people out there don't seem to realize how much goes on that God never wanted to happen. He always has a plan when it does happen outside His plan, but He would always rather it have happened His way the first time, for His ways are always the best ways.

As for your question about what we will rule over, you just have to go back to Genesis. What were we to rule over in God's original creation? It sure as heck was never other people. We were to have dominion over the earth and its animals. And what text gave you the idea that God has ever needed help ruling?

When Christ said "Father, forgive them" who was He talking about? Was it the Pharisees who knew full well what they were doing? Or might it have been the Roman soldiers who knew nothing of a Messiah and jewish prophecy, but might later have repented after learning the truth from maybe Peter or Paul?
Hi HalfNelson,

Thanks for answering my post. It sounds as though you did try and read that link, so, thank you.

But, you did not answer my first paragraph.

Also, what do these verses mean to you, ESPECIALLY Romans 8:20?

Romans 8:19: For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God.

Romans 8:20: Against its will, all creation was subjected to God's curse. But with eager hope.

Romans 8:21: The creation looks forward to the day when it will join God's children in glorious freedom from death and decay.

I Corinthians 6:3: Don't you realize that we will judge angels? So you should surely be able to resolve ordinary disputes in this life.

I Corinthians 6:2: Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases?

Isaiah 26:9: All night long I search for you; in the morning I earnestly seek for God. For only when you come to judge the earth will people learn what is right.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2010, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,289,114 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
Really? Well - when an article starts with a total fabrication:
That's your opinion. Now prove it.

Quote:
In Biblical UR Jesus Christ is the centerpiece for all EXISTENCE. Repentance ultimately comes to all as well as rebirth. The opening of the article shows the writer does not understand the first thing about UR so why should anyone try to rebut? There's nothing there to rebut.
You didn't even read the articles...there are three of them. Especially the second one....Is universlaism Biblical. The first article was a rebuttal against UR and Annihalationism using certain verses that are supported by both paradigms. The second one, is the focus, in which the OP was taken from.

UR is a divided front, so how can it be singled out as one view?
It cannot, at least from what I have seen here and on the net. You people can't agree whether forever means forever or not.

We as a Christian united front, agree that it all depends on context.
UR cannot make up their mind on that, because it destroys half their premise if they accept this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2010, 01:27 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,722,144 times
Reputation: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfNelson View Post
Yes, I do believe in annihilation, but what I was specifically referring to was the text you quoted stating "love keeps no record of wrongs" and how that is then reconciled with the part of Rev 20:12 which I underlined that says "And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books."

I understand fully that God is love, but He is also just.
Well, the bible does say both, so I would say that "keeps no record of wrongs" means not holding grudges, in other words, not ever forgiving for that wrong. Once the deeds are judged and everyone has their just punishment, they will be forgiven. That's how I see it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2010, 01:32 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,722,144 times
Reputation: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
UR is a divided front, so how can it be singled out as one view?
It cannot, at least from what I have seen here and on the net. You people can't agree whether forever means forever or not.

We as a Christian united front, agree that it all depends on context.
UR cannot make up their mind on that, because it destroys half their premise if they accept this.
Universalism is united on the essentials. ET/Mainstream doctrine believers can't even agree on how one gets saved.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top