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Old 05-16-2010, 07:06 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,202,500 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
I'll put it this way. I have orthodox systematic theology on my side. And I understand it.

And I understand, as do those who are straight in their thinking, that universalism is straight out of the mouth of Satan.
You have the traditions of men on your side. And the traditions of men make the word of Go to none effect.

Jhn 3:17
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

According to the traditions of men to which you subscribe, God failed and the word of God who is Christ our lord and his work on the cross are of none effect.
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Old 05-16-2010, 07:14 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,314,782 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Comments from two of Universalisms finest...
Why thank-you!

Quote:
That shows that I'm doing something RIGHT!!!
Don't be so proud too quick.....

Quote:
Those who oppose the truth always attack those who stand for the truth!!!
Not attacking really (I don't think you stand for truth), just observing your need for a good Physician. Or perhaps more like a spiritual emergency room with Jesus overseeing the ICU...LOL
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Old 05-16-2010, 07:15 PM
 
701 posts, read 658,538 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Does a child love his parents by force? When you become born again of the spirit, born of God, then you learn to love him. It is not a matter of forcing, it is a matter of learning and healing.

Isa 57:17-19
I was enraged by his sinful greed; I punished him, and hid my face in anger, yet he kept on in his willful ways. I have seen his ways, but I will heal him; I will guide him and restore comfort to him creating praise on the lips of the mourners in Israel. Peace, peace, to those far and near," says the LORD. "And I will heal them."

God punishes all those who are filled with sin and greed, and he hides himself from them as they go on in their willful ways. But God sees their willful ways of sin, and he promises to heal them and guide them, and restore comforts unto them and those that mourn them.

Like I said, you believe we cannot choose to reject God. That sounds like force, anyway you slice it or dice it. Your Child metaphor does not work because once children reach a certain age, they are held accountable for their actions. Children are not capable of properly discerning right from wrong, adults are capable of this. If adults lacked the capacity to understand right/wrong then it would be unfair to judge them at all, yet we know that there will be a judgement. Adults have the ability to discern right/wrong. We have the ability to chose between the two. Love is a choice my friend. It cannot be love otherwise.
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Old 05-16-2010, 07:22 PM
 
701 posts, read 658,538 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
You have the traditions of men on your side. And the traditions of men make the word of Go to none effect.

Jhn 3:17
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

According to the traditions of men to which you subscribe, God failed and the word of God who is Christ our lord and his work on the cross are of none effect.
Please don't distort the word of God. Christ died on the cross so that all could be saved, not that all would be saved. Salvation is available to all, but all will not choose to accept the gift that is freely given. What don't you understand about the concept of choice/love/force? You seem to not understand any of these basic concepts. Adam and Eve were given a choice in the Garden. Calvary is all about making a choice available to us all, it doesn't guarantee that all will make the right choice. If it isn't about choice then calvary is meaningless. Why did He have to die, if we don't have choice?
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Old 05-16-2010, 07:25 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,202,500 times
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Originally Posted by HalfNelson View Post
Like I said, you believe we cannot choose to reject God. That sounds like force, anyway you slice it or dice it. Your Child metaphor does not work because once children reach a certain age, they are held accountable for their actions. Children are not capable of properly discerning right from wrong, adults are capable of this. If adults lacked the capacity to understand right/wrong then it would be unfair to judge them at all, yet we know that there will be a judgement. Adults have the ability to discern right/wrong. We have the ability to chose between the two. Love is a choice my friend. It cannot be love otherwise.

Very few ever reach Spiritual maturity in this life, in this world. We are all still children in Gods eyes. Most humans are not capable of properly discerning right from wrong either ... That is why discernment is considered a gift.

1Cr 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Until a person is born of the spirit, they cannot discern the things of the spirit.
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Old 05-16-2010, 07:30 PM
 
701 posts, read 658,538 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Very few ever reach Spiritual maturity in this life, in this world. We are all still children in Gods eyes. Most humans are not capable of properly discerning right from wrong either ... That is why discernment is considered a gift.

1Cr 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Until a person is born of the spirit, they cannot discern the things of the spirit.
How can LOVE exist in the absence of Choice?
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Old 05-16-2010, 07:34 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,202,500 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfNelson View Post
Please don't distort the word of God. Christ died on the cross so that all could be saved, not that all would be saved. Salvation is available to all, but all will not choose to accept the gift that is freely given. What don't you understand about the concept of choice/love/force? You seem to not understand any of these basic concepts. Adam and Eve were given a choice in the Garden. Calvary is all about making a choice available to us all, it doesn't guarantee that all will make the right choice. If it isn't about choice then calvary is meaningless. Why did He have to die, if we don't have choice?
I am not distorting the word of God. I realize that you believe i am ... Have you ever considered that maybe you are wrong? Just maybe ... ?

1Ti 2:3-4
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.


Just just a matter of time, when and where and how. But eventually God will have all be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth ...

According to you you save yourself by making good decisions. Christ only gives you the oppertunity to save yourself. So you boast of choosing to believe and thus save yourself, while you blame other for disbelief and stand in condemnation over them.

I used to believe the way you do now, and i have come to realize i was deceived ... I don't blame you, its all very subtle, and it takes allot of soul searching to come out from under the veil of ignorance of the indoctrination of the traditions of men.


God bless ...
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Old 05-16-2010, 07:36 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,202,500 times
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Originally Posted by HalfNelson View Post
How can LOVE exist in the absence of Choice?

Choice is only between the options available. One who does not have the option to know and believe cannot know and believe. One who does not Know and Believe God cannot love him. But once God reveals himself to the heart and mind of any person, and they are born again of the spirit, then they learn the love of God and they bare the fruit of the spirit.
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Old 05-16-2010, 07:37 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,202,500 times
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Originally Posted by HalfNelson View Post
How can LOVE exist in the absence of Choice?
True love is not a choice ... True love just happens, as if out of the blue ... That is the nature of the transformation we undergo when God finds us. We literally become a new creature.
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Old 05-16-2010, 07:39 PM
 
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We dont choose to love, we fall into love ... Or we become in love.
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