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Old 05-29-2010, 04:16 PM
 
3,585 posts, read 464,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latte'Chic View Post
A big... AMEN !!

Boy, I am so thankful..... "God does not depend on us for His existence." Could you imagine..... whew !

I so pray that people will and realize that "it's the other way around."
Blessings.....
Me too Latte!!!! woo hoo
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Old 05-29-2010, 08:06 PM
 
Location: missouri
1,179 posts, read 1,179,831 times
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Well let me see, I don't agree with some one, a student of spirituality of all things, and I turn into an inquisition monger (such spiritual love), and we haven't even had coffee together. Such pre-judging, I wonder who the real inquitionist is! Well I will say this again, I don't care what anyone thinks, where they go after death, what crap they believe, or how ignorant they want to be, it is a free country for now, and we might as well be all we can be in those dead end streets are thought lives exist on.

I am using paragraphs here to avoid that criticism. One does not pin me to the mat with a word definition. A word is a word, but content is everything (anyone who sums up their thought in a word has little thought, is still a child; atheists and christians!, I suppose the time when men thought is gone). Webster is for undergraduates. Any one who spends time in thought knows he has to modify definitions (historically these change, so they are fluid, and words are for mind not mind for words) and that requires content. Get a philosophy dictionary and look up metaphysics and you will find variations associated with various philosophers. So if you are going to throw Whitehead's stuff around give content and structure-form it up in a rational system and prove what you are claiming (for you whiny christians and such who are too lazy to expound, well, he who does not work does not eat, as it says somewhere, and since god looks to the heart, I imagine that moves beyond your Walmart job and goes to the heart of your existence; act and mind, especially mind).

Religion (I suppose spirituality as well) is an abstract category or genus. Left there, it has no content (in a sense it does not exist except in mind and it is merely a waste basket to throw all this stuff in, at best it becomes a filing cabinet). The various particular existing religions, are the species and their characteristics are the content. Historically these collide and are changed, die, become dumber or smarter, increase or decrease content, etc-but they compete in the struggle; most are crap with poor conceptions of god (pantheism as well as is adding the "en", poor conceptions). A student of this junk studies all this. That is ok, it is a disciple at college and every cultured, educated, politically correct person studies this drivel so they appear accepting of others, and are not accused of being inquisition mongers (and back slap each other in their little peer group). But a believer in all this junk is a nut job, blown by every wind of doctrine, this way and that, as it says somewhere. Keep this in mind.

Consciousness is that which, when it becomes reflective with thought (mistakenly referred to sometimes as the "raising of consciousness" when in reality it is just good learning, and breeding, and culture), Knows itself (subjectivity) because it finally Knows the "other". A child knows of the other, but it does not Know the other (to Know the other, brings one out of the child state-the immediate-and into ethics). In the story of creation from the bible (if you are a highly evolved christian and no longer have need of such fairy tales, or you believe in some mystical crap you may want to stop here), god says that the dirt is good. This gives us the notion that god has consciousness as he sees this "other" (dirt). Who knows how god really is, but since the story uses this trope, we may assume that god allows us to anthropomorphize him (after all, a high concept of god would not allow the created to see "truly" the creator, just as light only, would not allow the eye to see anything because of the lack of shadow). To have consciousness and to be god and to recognize an "other" suggests he has subjectivity. Before creating dirt he must recognize an "other" (you might want to check out Heidegger about things for themselves and for others) because he has subjectivity. The need for trinity is here, as this "other" would need to be, at some point way back yonder, a divine other (god was never a child so Knowing was already there eternally). God is "one" so something has to be applied to this "other" so trinity was used (the supporters at Nicea knew what they were doing as they were the Image of this god). Now when he created, he recognizes this created "other" and says that it is good. It is made, so it is passing, not divine (in the form of language, I think I said here, or was that somewhere else?). In a high god concept, the characteristics of god must be divine or eternally unchanging characteristics or one loses the god concept (there is a lot of that here on data bar, and that means a lot of un-reflecting atheists who think they believe). Created things must have temporal characteristics or one loses the created concept. Now if one wants to mix up these concepts, return to old defunct religions that is one's choice-it is still a free country and one is allowed to be as ignorant as one wants to be, but one has a problem with the rational here in the mixing (no wonder christianity is taken as a fool's game now as it shuns its epistemological basis; reason). Christianity (a Knowing christianity-rare nowadays) maxes out the god concept at this juncture in historical time-perhaps for all time; that should frost your fritters (that is the evolving or end goal in the genus religion-see Anselm's Monologion and especially the Proslogian's "proof", as well as figuring out the concept of the "absolute", philosophy is a help here too-but I know many christians, and this is a christian thread, scoff at loving god with all one's being {and the being of man is in his mind} and leaving the child behind, as I think that Paul said somewhere), so why would I waste my time on what preceded it or blindly pokes around today? A snob, yes I am.

Well, given the above, god has his divine consciousness and I am stuck with my crummy temporal consciousness that is a mere image of his, oh well. I am not divine and god is not temporal (I think it says somewhere that he who sets in the heavens laughs at men, men thinks he, god, is like them)-I will not confuse the categories as reason is a hard task master that, even though I error in relation to it often, it dogs me all the time, and I do not see how one can exist without these two categories being distinct (don't give me that ol' smug in faith crap-one is supposed to know what one believes-to give an account of oneself, to be a man, even a **** poor one).
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Old 05-29-2010, 08:17 PM
 
3,585 posts, read 464,829 times
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Allen



We all have different understandings ... and trying to communicate those understandings with each other can lead to mis-understanding.

I do not see that anyone is judging you as such
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Old 05-29-2010, 09:41 PM
 
Location: missouri
1,179 posts, read 1,179,831 times
Reputation: 151
My postings are not in response to some notion I have of a judging of me (but I will defend myself), what would that be to me? No one here signs my check as the saying goes. If I sound hard, you are mistaken or reading something in, as it is humorous and sarcastic, perhaps ironical somewhat, but it is a selfish attempt to clarify my own thoughts, to rationally systematize them, give them content, and the responders are mere occasions to do that in what interests me-I respond to my interests for myself, not to sell a product are to save the day. My not caring about other writers is just that, a simple not caring. All there is here are pseudonyms and hopefully thought out ideas and responses. Here, ideas are what count, not feelings; we don't go bowling together. If the relationship is to be different then one has to be friends, and then conversation has to be about or include our wives, hobbies, how Obama is doing, do you take cream?, etc. So don't worry or trouble yourself about it, it is not ever personal.
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Old 05-29-2010, 10:10 PM
 
3,585 posts, read 464,829 times
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It was this that I thought sounded like you thought you were being judged
Quote:
Originally Posted by allen antrim View Post
Well let me see, I don't agree with some one, a student of spirituality of all things, and I turn into an inquisition monger (such spiritual love),
Carry on ..............
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Old 05-29-2010, 10:48 PM
 
Location: missouri
1,179 posts, read 1,179,831 times
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Sarcasm and humor, as an attempt to turn the table in what I responded to at that particular juncture. Perhaps I should put "hahahas" at places like this; but I probably won't!
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Old 05-29-2010, 10:57 PM
 
3,585 posts, read 464,829 times
Reputation: 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by allen antrim View Post
Sarcasm and humor, as an attempt to turn the table in what I responded to at that particular juncture. Perhaps I should put "hahahas" at places like this; but I probably won't!
No problem ... it was just an observation .... in this forum there is a lot of misunderstanding of what people are saying based on everyones diverse viewpoints and it can lead to heated confrontations.
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