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Do you believe that sex within a heterosexual marriage that is not for the purpose of procreation is a sin?
What if a married couple cannot afford to ever have children or do not think they can live up to the responsibility of children...are they missing the mark, and therefore, sinning against nature if sex=procreation?
No the marriage bed is undefiled and procreation is not up to man but God.
Cannot afford? It has never stopped them before, look at the Africans or the poor of any culture, still having kids that are still starving.
Homosexuality as a term? Are you missing something? Homosexuality wasn't even a term until the 20th century. No as defined it is clear as day within the scriptures for both male and female. Now if you would be so kind to read all aspects of the definition you will find the definition fits both male and female. Another words man don't have sex with a man and woman don't have sex with a woman whether it be a temple prostitute or an average Joe or Jane. If it is not between a man and his wife it is sin. And for clarification God never condoned polygamy and that is evident by all the ternoil in such relationships throughout the Bible.
The old testament does not describe an act of lesbianism, it describes a certain male act. This act in and of itself does not define homosexuality, it describes a specific sex act.
The new testament does not describe homosexual acts, it describes the nature of peoples hearts towards one another.
And no, the scriptures are not CLEAR about it. This claim is false. Some have "decided" homosexuality is unnatural, and therefore claim the scriptures are clear as day for being against it. This is false again, because homosexuality is actually a natural occurance in human beings.
The defense against that is another false claim, the claim that people simply choose to be gay. This is an idea formed from ignorance.
The old testament does not describe an act of lesbianism, it describes a certain male act. This act in and of itself does not define homosexuality, it describes a specific sex act.
The new testament does not describe homosexual acts, it describes the nature of peoples hearts towards one another.
And no, the scriptures are not CLEAR about it. This claim is false. Some have "decided" homosexuality is unnatural, and therefore claim the scriptures are clear as day for being against it. This is false again, because homosexuality is actually a natural occurance in human beings.
The defense against that is another false claim, the claim that people simply choose to be gay. This is an idea formed from ignorance.
You really need to read the Bible. You also need to understand the difference between love and lust, and sex and love, and sex and lust. Get a good concordance and really look at the definitions and apply them to the Bible. You can love or lust who you chose but the sexual immorality aspect can be the difference between honoring God or rebelling against God.
You really need to read the Bible. You also need to understand the difference between love and lust, and sex and love, and sex and lust. Get a good concordance and really look at the definitions and apply them to the Bible. You can love or lust who you chose but the sexual immorality aspect can be the difference between honoring God or rebelling against God.
You have actually presented what I know to be true. Homosexuality in and of itself is not wrong according to scripture.
You can be a homosexual and be sexually pure or sexually immoral. Homosexuality in and of itself does not make one sexually immoral.
Thank you for telling me to read the bible and study, I do, I am sorry that our disagreement seems to bother you enough to need to try to imply that I do not. But that is actually more about you than me.
The old testament does not describe an act of lesbianism, it describes a certain male act. This act in and of itself does not define homosexuality, it describes a specific sex act.
This agrees with my study of the Bible.
And this sex act is condemned by the Bible as are those who practice it.
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... The new testament does not describe homosexual acts, it describes the nature of peoples hearts towards one another.
The specific act is again described in the NT, and the NT also is more in terms of men's hearts.
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... And no, the scriptures are not CLEAR about it. This claim is false.
I do not see what part of this is not clear.
The act of sodomy between men is condemned in both the OT and NT.
If men practice this act of sodomy between themselves this act is very clearly condemned.
Quote:
... Some have "decided" homosexuality is unnatural, and therefore claim the scriptures are clear as day for being against it. This is false again, because homosexuality is actually a natural occurance in human beings.
The defense against that is another false claim, the claim that people simply choose to be gay. This is an idea formed from ignorance.
We all have a sin nature.
We all are born with facets of ourselves which would draw each of us toward some sinful act.
Each of us must deal with these natural urges. How we do so, is what the NT is all about.
One person may have desires to perform sodomy with another man; an other person may desire to covet another man's wife; another may desire to kill; another may desire to rape; others may desire to steal.
We all have sinful desires, it is our nature.
We also know that many of these actions are sinful, and we also know that grace and mercy abound toward those who believe.
It is not liberty to go on continuing to live in sin, but to praise God and try to live sin-less lives, pure and righteous, without sin.
IMHO to be 'homosexual' merely means that you have those predispositions in yourself to desire to perform those sin actions. Much like others will have the desire within themselves to perform other sinful acts.
Does that mean we should all be performing as many sinful actions as we wish? Obviously no.
What people claim is clear is that the bible is against homosexuality. It is not clear, nor is it even true.
Sodomy is mutually exclusive from homosexuality. The fact that homosexual couples may engage in it has nothing to do with whether homosexuality is condemned in scripture. There are homosexual couples who never engage in sodomy. One might believe that they then are not homosexuals which would prove their ignorance.
You cannot infer the OT descriptions onto lesbianism. You cannot infer the NT descriptions directly to homosexuality and maintain the assertion of clarity on the subject.
Does that mean we should all be performing as many sinful actions as we wish? Obviously no.
No, but my point is that homosexuality ultimatly relies on the assertion of it being unnatural as why it is wrong. Once the scriptures used are proven to not actually say homosexuality is wrong, the inference to the unnatural is made. This is an act of ignorance, because it is not unnatural.
Then we have the attempt you make here, you make the general declaration here about sin, of course the statement is reasonable, applying homosexuality to your statement however is not, because you have not demonstrated that it is a sin in the first place.
Males performing sodomy on each other is a sin, according to the Bible [Both OT and NT].
Not all homosexual relationships involve sodomy. So the assertion that homosexuality is wrong according to clear scripture references is false.
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