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Old 05-19-2010, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,107,186 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
See my response to Legoman regarding the Timothy verses.

I highlighted in blue above what I thought is important.

1 Cor. 15 - All in Christ will be made alive - not all will be made alive.

Rom. 5 - The free gift has come to all - but not all received the gift.
Not true! Paul in Romans 5 declares what God has done through the Christ, namely this:
as ALL were born into unrighteousness and condemnation, so ALL have been put into Life through the perfect sacrifice of the One Jesus Christ.

You cannot have ALL in Adam and not ALL in Christ. Jesus undid the curse!

THAT is a JUST God, one that says to the dead, ARISE! and Christ shall give thee light.

LOOK at what happened to Saul on the road to Damascus. He was spontaneously changed, calling Jesus Lord even before knowing His name. He said, "who art thou, LORD??" And the voice said, "I am Jesus, whom thou persecutest."
Saul thought he was on God's side, but was fighting against Him, and his conscience bothered him.

So Yes, ALL have received the gift. Some just don't know to walk in it yet!

Blessings brother,
Brian
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Old 05-19-2010, 04:14 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,196,917 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Hi all,
perhaps this discussion can be simplified as such:
"God helps those who help themselves" vs. "God helps those who cannot help themselves."

Peace,
brian

Exactly ....
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Old 05-19-2010, 04:15 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,196,917 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
Yes ........ he has come to save sinners ............ who are (spiritually) blind, deaf, naked
And he has come to justify the ungodly, not the Godly, as if there were such a thing ...
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Old 05-19-2010, 04:18 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,196,917 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
See my response to Legoman regarding the Timothy verses.

I highlighted in blue above what I thought is important.

1 Cor. 15 - All in Christ will be made alive - not all will be made alive.

Rom. 5 - The free gift has come to all - but not all received the gift.

You highlighted what you believe supports your doctrine, and cast the rest aside.

Simply put, where ever sin did abound, grace did much more abound.
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Old 05-19-2010, 04:21 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,196,917 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
See my response to Legoman regarding the Timothy verses.

I highlighted in blue above what I thought is important.

1 Cor. 15 - All in Christ will be made alive - not all will be made alive.

Rom. 5 - The free gift has come to all - but not all received the gift.

So basically you are saying God might gather all things together in to one in Christ, but he might not?

That is not the meaning of the word in this verse, might as in may, as in can, as in will ...

I know you dont believe that God is able to accomplish his desire, but the scriptures say that he will ...

Isa 55:11
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

All those who die in Adam, are the same as all those who will be made alive in Christ.


"But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."

It says "as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive" ... It does not say, "all those who are in adam die, and all those who are in Christ shall be made alive". I know you wish that is what it said, but it doesn't, and all your twisting of the scripture will never change the fact.


Selah ..
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Old 05-19-2010, 04:33 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,284,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
IMO you seem to have left out the Holy Spirit to be guiding you ...........
That's a given meerkat...remember......Trinitarian over here.
Do I need to spell it out for you in every post?
What part of "where there is two, he is there" in my post, are you having trouble with?

Last edited by sciotamicks; 05-19-2010 at 05:21 PM..
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Old 05-19-2010, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
26,196 posts, read 14,086,044 times
Reputation: 10085
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
You did not even respond to the proof that one can be saved at the time of judgment. You skip over the parts you don't like.
Let me try it again - for those who are in Christ, yes - they will be saved through judgment. This does not apply to those not in Christ.

Again - salvation does not depend on judgment and deeds. Now all will be judged - those in Christ at the judgment seat of Christ. Those not in Christ at the White Throne judgment. But one's location depends on relationship to Christ.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
I never said unbelievers on earth are in the kingdom, i am saying that after the resurrection and after they(unbelievers in this life) have been purified by the fiery judgments of God, when they confess Christ is lord by the holy spirit, then they will then enter into the kingdom ...
As far as the bold... where does it say this? When do they get the Spirit?

The people in 1 Cor. 3 already have the foundation, which is Christ. They have overcome the world.
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Old 05-19-2010, 04:48 PM
 
78 posts, read 87,674 times
Reputation: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
1Cor. 15 - All in Christ will be made alive
i noticed you had to rearrange the wording to make it fit your belief

1 Cor 15 actually says:
in Christ shall all be made alive.

you change the meaning when you rearrange the wording, but that is nothing new, it is an old standard way to get the scripture to fit the believe and it is done often
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Old 05-19-2010, 05:05 PM
 
3,576 posts, read 451,983 times
Reputation: 385
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
See my response to Legoman regarding the Timothy verses.

I highlighted in blue above what I thought is important.

1 Cor. 15 - All in Christ will be made alive - not all will be made alive.

Rom. 5 - The free gift has come to all - but not all received the gift.
What I notice is you change the order of the words to make it say what you want it to mean


1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.


(In Adam) all die and (In Christ) all will be made alive

but then it goes on to say that each in their own order

Christ the firstfruits

those that are his at his coming and then those that are not his at his coming will be subjected to himself and after he has subjected all to him he will be subject to his Father.
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Old 05-19-2010, 05:06 PM
 
3,576 posts, read 451,983 times
Reputation: 385
Quote:
Originally Posted by dipidydoodaa View Post
i noticed you had to rearrange the wording to make it fit your belief

1 Cor 15 actually says:
in Christ shall all be made alive.

you change the meaning when you rearrange the wording, but that is nothing new, it is an old standard way to get the scripture to fit the believe and it is done often
you posted while I was typing
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