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Old 05-20-2010, 02:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post

You say that the believers salvation is eternally secure ... Does that include those of us Christians who have come to believe in UR as well?
Don't forget the OSAS loophole: you are only eternally secure if you really believed the first time... maybe you believed the wrong thing! So in that case you are not eternally secure...
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Old 05-21-2010, 01:24 AM
 
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Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Don't forget the OSAS loophole: you are only eternally secure if you really believed the first time... maybe you believed the wrong thing! So in that case you are not eternally secure...

Well i though I actually heard Mike say in another thread that even if a person once believed and confessed Christ and fell away into doubt or disbelief that even then they were still saved ...

It is curious that he will not answer my question though. I Figured as much as i though i also once heard him say that universalists are going wind up the lake of fire in yet another thread ...

I would like for him to explain ... Bur I guess he is not interested.
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Old 05-21-2010, 02:00 AM
 
20,347 posts, read 15,726,172 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Well i though I actually heard Mike say in another thread that even if a person once believed and confessed Christ and fell away into doubt or disbelief that even then they were still saved ...

It is curious that he will not answer my question though. I Figured as much as i though i also once heard him say that universalists are going wind up the lake of fire in yet another thread ...

I would like for him to explain ... Bur I guess he is not interested.
I get around to it when I get around to it. Now I'll take a moment and answer the question.

Once a person has believed in Christ he is saved forever. Even if he turns around and rejects Christ. He did nothing to earn salvation ( placing your faith in Christ is not earning salvation and does not give man any credit.), and he can do nothing to lose salvation.

Now, as for universalists, if a person had the good since to believe in Christ for salvation, having understood the issue in salvation, before he got sucked into universalism, then he is saved.

But if the person never understood the issue in salvation, or if he placed his faith in 'some other Jesus' as opposed to the Jesus of the Bible, for instance, if he doesn't believe that Jesus Christ is God, then he doesn't believe in the Jesus Christ of the Bible and therefore has an improper object for his faith, and therefore he is not saved.
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Old 05-21-2010, 06:57 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,216,735 times
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Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
I get around to it when I get around to it. Now I'll take a moment and answer the question.

Once a person has believed in Christ he is saved forever. Even if he turns around and rejects Christ. He did nothing to earn salvation ( placing your faith in Christ is not earning salvation and does not give man any credit.), and he can do nothing to lose salvation.

Now, as for universalists, if a person had the good since to believe in Christ for salvation, having understood the issue in salvation, before he got sucked into universalism, then he is saved.

But if the person never understood the issue in salvation, or if he placed his faith in 'some other Jesus' as opposed to the Jesus of the Bible, for instance, if he doesn't believe that Jesus Christ is God, then he doesn't believe in the Jesus Christ of the Bible and therefore has an improper object for his faith, and therefore he is not saved.

So if someone who never believed in Christ the way you personally believe in Christ, not just as their savior but the whole trinity doctrine and what not, then they were never truly saved. Interesting ...

The funny thing is, and sad at the same time i must admit, i actually at one time believed very similar to the way you believe ... There were still some differences i am sure ... So i guess that means if your right then i'm okay?
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