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Old 05-21-2010, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,427,831 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
It may be painfully clear to you because you're into that sort of thing, but it's obvious from the scripture that I quoted that ALL will be reconciled. There's no spin you can put on those scriptures to change what it clearly says. There's nothing you can say or do to change what those scriptures say. I'm really sad that you can't see the wonderful picture of ALL being reconciled to God and that you feel you have to continue in the lie of ET.
You know what amazes me, Ilene? Is that you are such a quick study. To all of us out here it is as if God suddenly taught you all about universalism in such a short time! Pastors spend YEARS in seminary to learn all the doctrines they think come from scripture but yet I see that for those of us who learn about UR it is as if a key is turned and all the information comes rushing in and all of the sudden it makes sense! It may take some time to confirm it but it amazes me how faithful God is to show us his nature so that we may REJOICE!

I jump at the chance to read your posts. I really truly have been blessed by you!
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Old 05-21-2010, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Florida
58,782 posts, read 32,220,783 times
Reputation: 9485
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
It may be painfully clear to you because you're into that sort of thing, but it's obvious from the scripture that I quoted that ALL will be reconciled. There's no spin you can put on those scriptures to change what it clearly says. There's nothing you can say or do to change what those scriptures say. I'm really sad that you can't see the wonderful picture of ALL being reconciled to God and that you feel you have to continue in the lie of ET.
If 'reconciled' in those verses meant what you have been told it means, then the rest of the Bible is a huge lie, including John 3:16 and Luke 13:20-27, and hundreds of other Bible verses.
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Old 05-21-2010, 12:24 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,704,547 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
It says you can't enter. Period. It doesn't say that you can enter, but only after after you bathe in the lake of fire.
I never said it was worded that way, try again.
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Old 05-21-2010, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Florida
58,782 posts, read 32,220,783 times
Reputation: 9485
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Hosea 1:10 "Yet the Israelites will be like the sand on the seashore, which cannot be measured or counted. In the place where it was said to them, 'You are not my people,' they will be called 'sons of the living God.'

So the amount of people who are called sons of the living God will be like the sand on the seashore which cannot be measured or counted. WOW! And Paul quotes Hosea in Romans 9:26 ("AND IT SHALL BE THAT IN THE PLACE WHERE IT WAS SAID TO THEM, 'YOU ARE NOT MY PEOPLE,' THERE THEY SHALL BE CALLED SONS OF THE LIVING GOD.")
Romans 9 is "The Calling Of The Gentiles", where Paul explains the Jews had rejected Christ, so the invitation was extended to the Gentiles.

It also says;

I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, those of my own race, the people of Israel

I guess Paul was not a universalist since he anguishes over the self inflicted doom of his fellow Israelites.

The older will serve the younger." 13Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.

Soverign God can choose to favor some, and not others.

Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

See what I mean?

22What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction?

Waaaahh? Some people are prapered for destruction The Pharao sure was. Maybe he should have converted to universalism when he still has a chance.

For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.

And last, but not least:

"Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea,
only the remnant will be saved.
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Old 05-21-2010, 12:34 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,785,380 times
Reputation: 58199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
If 'reconciled' in those verses meant what you have been told it means, then the rest of the Bible is a huge lie, including John 3:16 and Luke 13:20-27, and hundreds of other Bible verses.
I haven't been "told" anything except by the Bible itself......it says it right there in plain sight!! The rest of the Bible is not a lie and I can't believe you would say that. Are you saying that the Bible contradicts itself? Then you need to start looking at it through different eyes other than the ET ones you're using and really understand what the Bible is saying about "hell" and what that means. If you're going to read John 3:16, then you need to read in context and read the following scripture to understand:

John 3:17

17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.


You can't understand the full picture unless you read with eyes wide open, in context, and without previous bias and indoctrination. And with the Holy Spirit's guidance.
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Old 05-21-2010, 12:38 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,704,547 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
If 'reconciled' in those verses meant what you have been told it means, then the rest of the Bible is a huge lie, including John 3:16 and Luke 13:20-27, and hundreds of other Bible verses.

No, it only makes the rest of what you believe it means a possible lie which has nothing to do with the bible actually being a lie. I found that difference out several years ago.

Ilene has found out that difference here recently.
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Old 05-21-2010, 12:39 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,785,380 times
Reputation: 58199
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
You know what amazes me, Ilene? Is that you are such a quick study. To all of us out here it is as if God suddenly taught you all about universalism in such a short time! Pastors spend YEARS in seminary to learn all the doctrines they think come from scripture but yet I see that for those of us who learn about UR it is as if a key is turned and all the information comes rushing in and all of the sudden it makes sense! It may take some time to confirm it but it amazes me how faithful God is to show us his nature so that we may REJOICE!

I jump at the chance to read your posts. I really truly have been blessed by you!
Well thank you very much Kat!!! It IS truly amazing how fast the information comes flooding in once one opens the gate to the truth.....simply amazing!! Thanks again, I also am learning a great deal from your posts and others also!
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Old 05-21-2010, 12:39 PM
 
Location: RV Park
7,544 posts, read 11,601,540 times
Reputation: 4470
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
If 'reconciled' in those verses meant what you have been told it means, then the rest of the Bible is a huge lie, including John 3:16 and Luke 13:20-27, and hundreds of other Bible verses.
Understand they are both true, all of it (obviously). There is a part of you and me that is not going to enter, and that part (the carnal nature) should be in the act of dying daily, so less fire should be necessary.
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Old 05-21-2010, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,698,346 times
Reputation: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
You know what amazes me, Ilene? Is that you are such a quick study. To all of us out here it is as if God suddenly taught you all about universalism in such a short time! Pastors spend YEARS in seminary to learn all the doctrines they think come from scripture but yet I see that for those of us who learn about UR it is as if a key is turned and all the information comes rushing in and all of the sudden it makes sense! It may take some time to confirm it but it amazes me how faithful God is to show us his nature so that we may REJOICE!

I jump at the chance to read your posts. I really truly have been blessed by you!
Kat, why do you act like you believe what they believe? You don't believe in heaven. You don't believe in Jesus' deity. You don't believe in Satan, demons or angels. Your beliefs are not similar to them, but why do you act like that are? Why do you try to refute hell, but don't try to tell the universalists that heaven isn't real?
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Old 05-21-2010, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Florida
58,782 posts, read 32,220,783 times
Reputation: 9485
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
I haven't been "told" anything except by the Bible itself......it says it right there in plain sight!! The rest of the Bible is not a lie and I can't believe you would say that. Are you saying that the Bible contradicts itself?
It would contradict itself if the UR theory was right, but of course it does not happen since the UR theory is not right.

John 3:16-20 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son
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