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Old 05-21-2010, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,712 posts, read 32,163,063 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave View Post
Kat, why do you act like you believe what they believe? You don't believe in heaven. You don't believe in Jesus' deity. You don't believe in Satan, demons or angels. Your beliefs are not similar to them, but why do you act like that are? Why do you try to refute hell, but don't try to tell the universalists that heaven isn't real?
That's the UR selling point : no belief necessary. Anyone can claim to be a URr, atheists, Muslims, Bhuddists. The goal of a universal religion aka 'one world religion' is to make it sound like it offers salvation to everyone with little or no commitment from the member's part.
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Old 05-21-2010, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,420,472 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave View Post
Kat, why do you act like you believe what they believe? You don't believe in heaven. You don't believe in Jesus' deity. You don't believe in Satan, demons or angels. Your beliefs are not similar to them, but why do you act like that are? Why do you try to refute hell, but don't try to tell the universalists that heaven isn't real?
Well.. work was canceled so I guess I have time to respond now! YAY!

You are correct in that my definitions of heaven, hell, satan, demons, angels and even the deity of Jesus are different than that of even most of the universalists.... However, notice I said my DEFINITION of such things are different... right? So while the thought of an actual place called hell is damaging IMO to the psyche of the individual.. the thought of an actual place called heaven doesn't seem to have any negative effects... well except in the case of exclusivity..which of course is not a problem within UR.

We are all in different stages of growth. Therefore, when I define heaven as a state of being, I also define hell as a state of being. Angels and demons, satan, are another matter altogether as the words used today are not the same in meaning as those used then...but they don't seem to have the same negative affect as belief in hell so obviously does. Also, I believe that Jesus having divine characteristics doesn't mean he is God in the flesh but then again he did know God while in his flesh.

Does that make sense?

I define things differently but the core concept of UR stands on it's own. Love is of God. God is love. Heaven is a state of bliss, Hell is a state of condemnation.

I simply disagree that hell is a place of burning torture for those who don't conform to a certain theology and I find it damaging rather than edifying.

Hope that helps in your understanding of what I believe... I think it was you who said that at least I am consistent!
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Old 05-21-2010, 01:31 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,726,762 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
It would contradict itself if the UR theory was right, but of course it does not happen since the UR theory is not right.

John 3:16-20 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son
Yes, people who believe in Jesus know Him, and people who don't believe in Him are condemned, which means they don't love Him.

John 17:3 - Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

John 3:19
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
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Old 05-21-2010, 01:32 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,700,691 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
That's the UR selling point : no belief necessary. Anyone can claim to be a URr, atheists, Muslims, Bhuddists. The goal of a universal religion aka 'one world religion' is to make it sound like it offers salvation to everyone with little or no commitment from the member's part.

There is no "offer" the idea of an "offer" is religious doctrine.


Of course religion offers salvation, but it means nothing.
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Old 05-21-2010, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,696,156 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
That's the UR selling point : no belief necessary. Anyone can claim to be a URr, atheists, Muslims, Bhuddists. The goal of a universal religion aka 'one world religion' is to make it sound like it offers salvation to everyone with little or no commitment from the member's part.
You are right. I've never seen them say to the Mormon who posts on here that he is wrong in his beliefs. As long as he doesn't believe in hell, why correct him? This couldn't be farther from what Jesus taught!
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Old 05-21-2010, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,420,472 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
That's the UR selling point : no belief necessary. Anyone can claim to be a URr, atheists, Muslims, Bhuddists. The goal of a universal religion aka 'one world religion' is to make it sound like it offers salvation to everyone with little or no commitment from the member's part.
Funny that you would say that because I feel the same way about ET... if not for the threat of Eternal Torture.. would most of the Christians even BE committed to living life by God's standards? From what I gather it is just a once in a while confession of faith /belief that saves you so that every other moment can be spent with little or no commitment. If you could put together the criteria on who exactly is saved then perhaps we can compare... Mine is rather short:

You must be human (sorry animal lovers but I just don't see the need for salvation within an animal... because salvation brings forth fruit and I don't see that applying to animals... but hey, I could be wrong and it applies to all creation).

You must be under the authority of God (i.e. within the kingdom). God has authority over all creation and that authority was given to Christ then the apostles.

Other than that what criteria would allow the person to not work for salvation yet obtain it? Anything the person does is working toward a goal.

I also don't believe you must SEE or RECOGNIZE your salvation in order to be counted as saved...

Yet in this many URers will disagree... it is all semantics.. One way or another God will have is desire and he clearly desires all men to be saved. How he does that it up to him as the potter.

What say you?
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Old 05-21-2010, 01:33 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,700,691 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave View Post
You are right. I've never seen them say to the Mormon who posts on here that he is wrong in his beliefs. As long as he doesn't believe in hell, why correct him? This couldn't be farther from what Jesus taught!

Exactly, why would you correct finn on something you agree with him about?
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Old 05-21-2010, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,696,156 times
Reputation: 528
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Well.. work was canceled so I guess I have time to respond now! YAY!

You are correct in that my definitions of heaven, hell, satan, demons, angels and even the deity of Jesus are different than that of even most of the universalists.... However, notice I said my DEFINITION of such things are different... right? So while the thought of an actual place called hell is damaging IMO to the psyche of the individual.. the thought of an actual place called heaven doesn't seem to have any negative effects... well except in the case of exclusivity..which of course is not a problem within UR.

We are all in different stages of growth. Therefore, when I define heaven as a state of being, I also define hell as a state of being. Angels and demons, satan, are another matter altogether as the words used today are not the same in meaning as those used then...but they don't seem to have the same negative affect as belief in hell so obviously does. Also, I believe that Jesus having divine characteristics doesn't mean he is God in the flesh but then again he did know God while in his flesh.

Does that make sense?

I define things differently but the core concept of UR stands on it's own. Love is of God. God is love. Heaven is a state of bliss, Hell is a state of condemnation.

I simply disagree that hell is a place of burning torture for those who don't conform to a certain theology and I find it damaging rather than edifying.

Hope that helps in your understanding of what I believe... I think it was you who said that at least I am consistent!
So you don't correct people who you believe are wrong as long as their beliefs don't have negative affects? Where do you get this from? How is this Biblical?
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Old 05-21-2010, 01:36 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,726,762 times
Reputation: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
That's the UR selling point : no belief necessary. Anyone can claim to be a URr, atheists, Muslims, Bhuddists. The goal of a universal religion aka 'one world religion' is to make it sound like it offers salvation to everyone with little or no commitment from the member's part.
I thought you said (maybe it was one of the other ETers) that you only have to believe and make the wise choice to accept the gift. Now you say you have to make a commitment? Can you quote a scripture that says commitment is required for salvation?
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Old 05-21-2010, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,696,156 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Exactly, why would you correct finn on something you agree with him about?
Because Mormons believe in VERY different things than Christians. They are a different religion. My family is Mormon. Why would you not try to show them in the Bible why they are wrong in their beliefs?
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