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Old 05-20-2010, 11:50 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,423,420 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Same here.
I get what you guys are saying. Many churches do focus almost exclusively on God's love, and that is a good thing IMHO. But in that situation, eternal torment becomes the elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about.

God is love, He loves you, He loves all humanity...... but He allows most of humanity to suffer forever. No one wants to think about the second part of that sentence because it doesn't fit with the message that God is loving.
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Old 05-20-2010, 11:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
I know the use of fear modus operandi for some Christians, I don't see it much-except in the movies and nonchristian TV shows.

Maybe I go to the "wrong" churches, but 90% of the time you hear about God's love. I really don't know anyone who came to God thru fear. Rather they and myself came to God from a desire for relationship.

John 3:16 says it:

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Well certainly in many Churches as you say, but then the pastor is preaching to the choir, its all about love and obedience and giving to those who believe they are already saved.

But when it comes to the street preaching, the real proselytizing, its more often repent for wrath and fire and judgment and hell ...
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Old 05-20-2010, 12:12 PM
Status: "Build the damn wall!" (set 26 days ago)
 
Location: Walt Disney World
15,305 posts, read 8,292,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
I get what you guys are saying. Many churches do focus almost exclusively on God's love, and that is a good thing IMHO. But in that situation, eternal torment becomes the elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about.

God is love, He loves you, He loves all humanity...... but He allows most of humanity to suffer forever. No one wants to think about the second part of that sentence because it doesn't fit with the message that God is loving.
I'm going to disagree with you, at least a little. Jesus came in Truth & Grace. Too many churches lean almost exclusively toward grace, & rarely teach truth. Of course, the opposite is true also. A Biblical balance is needed. That can be found my reading & studying the words of Jesus.
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Old 05-20-2010, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
7,964 posts, read 8,547,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
He loves all humanity...... but He allows most of humanity to suffer forever. No one wants to think about the second part of that sentence because it doesn't fit with the message that God is loving.
It fits who God is. It might not fit what people want God to be.

If God were a made up thing, I can assure you He would fit what we want in a God.
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Old 05-20-2010, 12:18 PM
Status: "Build the damn wall!" (set 26 days ago)
 
Location: Walt Disney World
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
It fits who God is. It might not fit what people want God to be.

If God were a made up thing, I can assure you He would fit what we want in a God.
Well said!

Proverbs 14:12


12 There is a way that seems right to a man,
but in the end it leads to death.
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Old 05-20-2010, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,588,203 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
I get what you guys are saying. Many churches do focus almost exclusively on God's love, and that is a good thing IMHO. But in that situation, eternal torment becomes the elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about.

God is love, He loves you, He loves all humanity...... but He allows most of humanity to suffer forever. No one wants to think about the second part of that sentence because it doesn't fit with the message that God is loving.
I think the majority of the churches focus on God's love for the 'ELECT', the 'CHOSEN FEW' the 'FAITHFUL', the 'TRUE BELIEVERS'. There are numerous words and code phrases that the churches use to EXCLUDE OTHERS from God's grace. I've been to many churches in my life. They all implied that you had been snatched from the pits of hell by having had the good sense to:

a) attend church (they look down on those who do not go to church)
b) pray a quick standardized sinner's prayer, nevermind the fact that you are still full of lust and greed and all manner of wicked habits - God's got you covered. But those secular humanists, by golly they are going to burn in hell, regardless of the fact that they are feeding the poor in Africa and trying to stop war through non-violent movements.

church life is a sham - a place where people are certainly not encouraged to be themselves or ask any difficult questions. If one does ask hard questions, they are fed the pablum of pat answers and expected to sweep their questions under the rug and just don't think about the difficult images, like millions of people being burnt in hell forever. It's truly sick.
Oh, and make sure you tithe, otherwise, we will accuse you of robbing God. How convenient. Of course supposedly you can't tithe by actually giving your money directly to the poor - no - no -no - you must give it to the elders of the church. Church membership promises that you have a special "spiritual covering" that you supposedly cannot get unless you are "sitting under the teaching of a man of God". I honestly don't know how people play this game for 40-60 years -it's astounding. That said, I do consider myself a believer in God and Christ and I pray for the world to come to the knowledge of the truth that we have all been reconciled to God through Christ. <3 Heartsong ..........

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Old 05-20-2010, 12:40 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,217,562 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
It fits who God is. It might not fit what people want God to be.

If God were a made up thing, I can assure you He would fit what we want in a God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Well said!

Proverbs 14:12


12 There is a way that seems right to a man,
but in the end it leads to death.

It may fit who you have been taught to believe God to be ...

The way of man is to torture their enemies and burn them alive. To murder and hate and return evil for evil. You mistake who the true God is, he is love. He is kind to the wicked and unthankful. Gods ways are to forgive and heal and renew and purify and sanctify and through his judgments to teach righteousness to those who are so judged.
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Old 05-20-2010, 12:42 PM
Status: "Build the damn wall!" (set 26 days ago)
 
Location: Walt Disney World
15,305 posts, read 8,292,220 times
Reputation: 1550
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
It may fits who you have been taught to believe God to be ...

The way of man is to torture their enemies and burn them alive. To murder and hate and return evil for evil. You mistake who the true God is, he is love. He is kind to the wicked and unthankful. Gods ways are to forgive and heal and renew and purify and sanctify and through his judgments to teach righteousness to those who are so judged.
UR is not Biblical.
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Old 05-20-2010, 12:42 PM
 
Location: RV Park
7,544 posts, read 11,586,534 times
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I guess you guys have never sat under a good ol' Pentecostal altar call - tugging at the heart strings (purely carnal), and a good strong dose of fire and brimstone. Quite of few people respond, and a month later they're more mixed up than they were before, in no small part because if the picture of God they've been shown - all love and completely torturous.

Brimstone has been used as a cleansing agent for thousands of years, and God is Himself the consuming fire.
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Old 05-20-2010, 12:46 PM
 
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Negative effects of the doctrine of ET? Well, it was the reason why the church during the dark ages would imprison unbelievers and even other Christians who did not agree with the theology of Rome and torture them until they repented of their "heresy" and then burn them alive. It was the reason why the Roman Catholic church caused learning of the poets and of science and of philosophy and of pretty much everything else including reading the scriptures or anything else for that matter to be outlawed. It is was caused the Roman Catholic church to raise armies and go to war during the crusades, the inquisitions ... Etc ...
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