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Old 05-20-2010, 11:49 AM
 
7,374 posts, read 8,724,831 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
UR is not Biblical.

According to you ... Maybe, if your lucky, you'll get a front row ticket to watch while Jesus and his angels burn most of humanity alive for ever. That would be heavenly wouldn't it?
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Old 05-20-2010, 12:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Well said!

Proverbs 14:12


12 There is a way that seems right to a man,
but in the end it leads to death.

Like Ironmaw said, have you considered that the "way that seems right to man" is that our enemies should be tortured forever?

Natural man hates his enemies, makes war with them and tries to kill them. Eternal torment extends that by allowing a man to believe his enemies are harmed forever.

Jesus tells us to love our enemies. UR says that God will ultimately reconcile all his enemies - none will suffer forever.

Which is the way that seems right to man?
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Old 05-20-2010, 12:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Negative effects of the doctrine of ET? Well, it was the reason why the church during the dark ages would imprison unbelievers and even other Christians who did not agree with the theology of Rome and torture them until they repented of their "heresy" and then burn them alive. It was the reason why the Roman Catholic church caused learning of the poets and of science and of philosophy and of pretty much everything else including reading the scriptures or anything else for that matter to be outlawed. It is was caused the Roman Catholic church to raise armies and go to war during the crusades, the inquisitions ... Etc ...
Yes, excellent example of what happens when you allow the doctrine of ET full control of the powers of government and military. The doctrine of ET effectively caused the dark ages and concentrated power in the hands of a few corrupt men. Knowledge was stifled, dissenters were crushed. People even tried to create hell on earth by burning heretics alive at the stake. Some justified it by saying they were only doing what God would do later. That is what the belief in eternal torment ultimately leads to.

Eternal torment is the exact opposite of love. That is why God allows the belief to exist, so we will learn what love is by seeing its exact opposite first.
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Old 05-20-2010, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
9,455 posts, read 12,482,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Jesus tells us to love our enemies. UR says that God will ultimately reconcile all his enemies - none will suffer forever.

Which is the way that seems right to man?
UR.

Either that or the NT is wrong.
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Old 05-20-2010, 12:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
UR.

Either that or the NT is wrong.
Do you think God loves His enemies?
Do you think the bible teaches us that God loves His enemies?
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Old 05-20-2010, 12:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
UR.

Either that or the NT is wrong.
Either the new testament is wrong or your interpretation of the new testament is wrong ...
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Old 05-20-2010, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Do you think God loves His enemies?
Do you think the bible teaches us that God loves His enemies?
What I think doesn't matter as much as what the NT says.

And of what relevance is your two questions to the idea of univeralism?
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Old 05-20-2010, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,392 posts, read 12,682,896 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
According to you ... Maybe, if your lucky, you'll get a front row ticket to watch while Jesus and his angels burn most of humanity alive for ever. That would be heavenly wouldn't it?
According to most.
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Old 05-20-2010, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
20,392 posts, read 12,682,896 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Like Ironmaw said, have you considered that the "way that seems right to man" is that our enemies should be tortured forever?

Natural man hates his enemies, makes war with them and tries to kill them. Eternal torment extends that by allowing a man to believe his enemies are harmed forever.

Jesus tells us to love our enemies. UR says that God will ultimately reconcile all his enemies - none will suffer forever.

Which is the way that seems right to man?
Yes, I have. Let's look at the verses preceding the passage I quoted.

8 The wisdom of the prudent is to give thought to their ways,
but the folly of fools is deception.

9 Fools mock at making amends for sin,
but goodwill is found among the upright.
10 Each heart knows its own bitterness,
and no one else can share its joy.
11 The house of the wicked will be destroyed,
but the tent of the upright will flourish. 12 There is a way that seems right to a man,
but in the end it leads to death.

You decide.
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Old 05-20-2010, 12:48 PM
 
6,657 posts, read 8,092,408 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
What I think doesn't matter as much as what the NT says.

And of what relevance is your two questions to the idea of univeralism?
Its very relevant, but why can you not answer these basic questions? Certainly the new testament does teach that God loves His enemies. Surprisingly some people do not think this is true though.
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