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Old 05-20-2010, 09:53 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,721,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
It is during the church-age that God only communicates through the written word.
That one sentence proves to me that you don't know God. You have been deceived by your so-called knowledge and manmade doctrine.

 
Old 05-20-2010, 10:06 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,380,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
God has chosen to communicate only through His written word during the church-age. He chose to limit Himself to communicating in that manner.

During the church-age, God does not use prophets, angelic beings, or dreams or visions to communicate His word. Only the Bible.
Could you explain this verse then?

Acts 2:17. "'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.
 
Old 05-20-2010, 10:07 PM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,651,035 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
That one sentence proves to me that you don't know God. You have been deceived by your so-called knowledge and manmade doctrine.
To the contrary. It is a matter of the dispensational nature of God's plan.

Dispensations In The Bible

But you are welcome to your opinion.
 
Old 05-20-2010, 10:12 PM
 
37,508 posts, read 25,238,629 times
Reputation: 5857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
To the contrary. It is a matter of the dispensational nature of God's plan.
Man made doctrine . . . you will not find Jesus ever mentioning anything of the kind. You follow the precepts and doctrines of men to your own peril, Mike.

Last edited by MysticPhD; 05-20-2010 at 10:32 PM..
 
Old 05-20-2010, 10:26 PM
 
3,576 posts, read 453,717 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
How does that matter?

Kat, the Bible isn't like a math book. It is living and breathing Jesus Christ in it. That is the mind of Christ. What Christ did, and fulfilled it.

Old Testament Concealed
New Testament Revealed

Folks,

When Paul spoke of the Holy Scriptures, he wasn't talking about the New Testament, he was talking about the Old, and that Christ is the revelation of just that. The mind of Christ. Because he, they whom he spoke to, and ourselves, we all have that revelation now. The Holy Spirit is in Christ, for He is God, in the flesh.
But what gets me is that with all you saying that the bible is the word of God and is all you need, how can you have such differing doctrines e.g you and mike -- mike accuses you of heresy for your belief in preterism. There are a lot more differing doctrines aside from UR futurism vs preterism OSAS, calvinism arminianism, etc If the bible was all you need there would be no interpretation needed. It is obvious that the Holy Spirit - the comforter that was promised illuminates the scriptures.

Mike is saying that the bible is all you need.
 
Old 05-20-2010, 11:12 PM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,651,035 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Could you explain this verse then?

Acts 2:17. "'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.
One thing I neglected to mention, and therefore will do so now is that the gift of prophecy along with other temporary spiritual gifts existed during the pre-Cannon era of the church-age. Up until about A.D. 96. Once the written Cannon of Scripture was completed the gift of prophecy ceased. After the the written Cannon of Scripture was completed, there was no further need for prophets.

'The last days' includes the entire time between the First and Second Advent of Christ. That means not only the Church-age but also the last remaining seven years belonging to the age of Israel. Otherwise known as the Tribulation. Additionally, with regard to Israel, 'the last days' refers to the kingdom age or Millennium as per Isaiah 2:2.

Regarding Acts 2:17, here is what C. I. Scofield wrote...

Scofield Reference Notes

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:


[1] last days

A distinction must be observed between "the last days" when the prediction relates to Israel, and the "last days" when the prediction relates to the church 1Tim 4:1-3 2Tim 3:1-8 Heb 1:1,2 1Pet 1:4,5 2Pet 3:1-9 1Jn 2:18,19 Jude 1:17-19. Also distinguish the expression the "last days" (plural) from "the last day" (singular); the latter expression referring to the resurrections and last judgment Jn 6:39,40,44,54 11:24 12:48. The "last days" as related to the church began with the advent of Christ Heb 1:2 but have especial reference to the time of declension and apostasy at the end of this age 2Tim 3:1 4:4. The "last days" as related to Israel are the days of Israel's exaltation and blessing, and are synonymous with the kingdom-age Isa 2:2-4 Mic 4:1-7. They are "last" not with reference to this dispensation, but with reference to the whole of Israel's history.

Acts 2 Scofield Reference Notes (1917 Edition)
----------------------------------------------

Compare with Joel 2:28

1(2:28) Compare Acts 2:17. Peter did not state that Joel's prophecy was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost. The details of Joel 2:30-32 (cp. Acts 2:19-20) were not realized at that time. Peter quoted Joel's prediction as an illustration of what was taking place in his day, and as a guarantee that God would yet completely fulfill all that Joel had prophesied. The time of that fulfillment is stated here (''afterward,'' cp. Hos. 3:5), i.e. in the latter days when Israel turns to the LORD, See also Gen. 49:1,note.

(New Scofield Reference Edition, footnote for Joel 2:28, p. 930.)
 
Old 05-20-2010, 11:17 PM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,651,035 times
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[quote=meerkat2;14270654]But what gets me is that with all you saying that the bible is the word of God and is all you need, how can you have such differing doctrines e.g you and mike -- mike accuses you of heresy for your belief in preterism. There are a lot more differing doctrines aside from UR futurism vs preterism OSAS, calvinism arminianism, etc If the bible was all you need there would be no interpretation needed. It is obvious that the Holy Spirit - the comforter that was promised illuminates the scriptures.

Mike is saying that the bible is all you need.[/QUOTE]

Go back and reread my posts. I have stated a number of times now on this thread that the Holy Spirit makes the doctrines of the word of God perspicacious.

I really have to wonder about the reading comprehension skills of some people.
 
Old 05-20-2010, 11:29 PM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,651,035 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Man made doctrine . . . you will not find Jesus ever mentioning anything of the kind. You follow the precepts and doctrines of men to your own peril, Mike.
To the contrary. The moment He mentioned the establishment of the Church, the issue concerning dispensations became apparent.

Now, I will say this. If you don't bother to go into this link, then remain silent about things of which you know nothing. And that goes for all other nay sayers with regard to dispensations.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/chris...ion-bible.html

Read the introduction I gave concerning dispensations or keep silent about it. Simple!!!
 
Old 05-20-2010, 11:40 PM
 
3,576 posts, read 453,717 times
Reputation: 385
[quote=Mike555;14271027]
Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
But what gets me is that with all you saying that the bible is the word of God and is all you need, how can you have such differing doctrines e.g you and mike -- mike accuses you of heresy for your belief in preterism. There are a lot more differing doctrines aside from UR futurism vs preterism OSAS, calvinism arminianism, etc If the bible was all you need there would be no interpretation needed. It is obvious that the Holy Spirit - the comforter that was promised illuminates the scriptures.

Mike is saying that the bible is all you need.[/QUOTE]

Go back and reread my posts. I have stated a number of times now on this thread that the Holy Spirit makes the doctrines of the word of God perspicacious.

I really have to wonder about the reading comprehension skills of some people.
Mike why say God ONLY speaks through the written word of God if that is not what you mean.

The Holy Scriptures (bible) are inspired by God through the men that wrote them down --- the Holy Spirit, sent in Jesus name, reveals what is in them.

Most of the people on the forum will agree with that.

It is when you try to say that they are "the word of God" as if they are God in written form, and have not passed through mens hands, is when people try to tell you that is what they think.
 
Old 05-21-2010, 12:35 AM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,651,035 times
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[quote=meerkat2;14271187]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Mike why say God ONLY speaks through the written word of God if that is not what you mean.
That is exactly what I mean!!! God speaks only through His written word during the church-age.

Quote:
The Holy Scriptures (bible) are inspired by God through the men that wrote them down --- the Holy Spirit, sent in Jesus name, reveals what is in them.

Most of the people on the forum will agree with that.

It is when you try to say that they are "the word of God" as if they are God in written form, and have not passed through mens hands, is when people try to tell you that is what they think.
When I say that God speaks only through the Scriptures, I am referring to the fact that in the church-age, once the written Cannon of Scripture was completed, God does not use prophets to communicate with man. And the use of angelic teachers, dreams, visions, and Urim and Thummim to communicate with man probably weren't used during the church-age at all.

For the duration of the dispensation of the church, God's complete and connected thought toward man is communicated through the holy Scriptures and made perspicacious by means of the teachng ministry of God the Holy Spirit.

And again, the Holy Spirit only uses the doctrine that is resident in the soul of the believer to guide that believer. That doctrine first had to be transferred from the written Scriptures into the soul of the believer. The Holy Spirit made that transfer possible. It is the Holy Spirit who makes spiritual phenomenon (Bible doctrine) understandable to the believer. Once Bible doctrine has been inculcated into the soul of the believer then the Holy Spirit has something with which to work. The believer with a soul full of doctrine which was obtained from the Bible has the means to make decisions based on divine viewpoint. The Holy Spirit's ministry is involved in all of this.


Now. Again, the Bible is the word of God, and here once again is the proof from the first post...


It seems that many professing Christians regard the Bible as nothing more then dead letters in a book. This explains why they feel free to disregard the Scriptures that they personally don't like and refer to them as doctrines of men.

But what do the Scriptures themselves say?

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is alive and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Some will say that Heb. 4:12 refers to Jesus and not to the Bible. But as Jesus is the living Word, so too is the Bible the written word. The Bible is the mind of Christ. The thoughts of Christ set down in writing. The words that Jesus Christ communicated, whether spoken while He was on the earth, or written in the Cannon of Scripture, are alive and powerful. Indeed, Jesus never communicated the content of church-age doctrine that is contained in the New Testament Scriptures while He was on the earth. What we have in the New Testament Holy Scriptures was communicated by means of divine inspiration from God the Holy Spirit to the human authors of the Bible.

We have in the written Scriptures, God's complete and connected thought toward man.



2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. 17)That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works


The Bible is not human viewpoint, or of human origin, but rather the Holy Spirit's use of human agencies.

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture originates from one's own disclosure. 21) For prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spoke as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.


The Bible is the source of all divine revelation and spiritual wisdom.

2 Timothy 3:14 You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them; 15) and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.


The Bible is the mind of Christ.

1 Corinthians 2:16 For who has known the mind of the Lord, That He should instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ.


The Bible is the absolute norm and standard for the believer.

Psalms 138:2 I will Sing praises to Thee before the gods. I will bow down toward Thy holy temple. And give thanks to Thy name for Thy lovingkindness and Thy truth; For Thou hast magnified Thy word according to all Thy name.



In Romans 1:2 and 2 Timothy 3:15, the expressions 'Holy Scriptures' and 'Sacred Writings' are used respectively.

Rom 1:2 which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures.

2 Tim 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.



God expects the believer to learn and metabolize the doctrines of the word of God.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Matthew 4:4 But He answered and said, ''It is written, 'Man shall not live on bread alone, But on every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.

Jeremiah 15:16 Thy words were found and I ate them, And Thy words became for me a joy and the delight of my heart;

Psalm 119:105 Thy word is a lamp to my feet, And a light to my path.

Psalm 119:103 How sweet are Thy words to my taste! Yes, sweeter than honey to my mouth!

Psalm 119:104 From Thy precepts I get understanding; Therefore I hate every false way.

Yes, the Bible is the written word of God, and Jesus Christ is the living Word. Everything that God intends for the believer in the church-age to know and to understand has been set down in writing. We have our operating instructions, our marching orders, in written form.

When the believer under the filling ministry of the Spirit (Eph 5:18), through use of the principle of (1 John 1:9), studies the written word, the Holy Spirit will make the spiritual phenomenon perspicacious to the believer. If the believer, upon understanding the doctrine, then believes it, it becomes metabolized and serves to edify the believer, resulting in spiritual growth.

The Holy Spirit will never, I repeat, Never guide a believer contrary to what is contained in the Scriptures. Anyone who claims to have been led by the Spirit to believe somethng that runs counter to what is contained in the Bible is not in the truth.

2 Peter 3:14 Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, 15) And regard the patience of our Lord to be salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16) As also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.
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