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All three members of the Godhead indwell the church-age believer. That has nothing to do with whether or not there are prophets during this dispensation.
Neither does what Pentecostals do or don't do have any bearing on whether there are prophets during the church-age.
The absolute norm and standard on the matter is the word of God.
The temporary spiritual gift of prophecy which existed during the pre-cannon era of the church-age (before the last book to go into the New Testament was completed) ceased when the New Testament was finished. 1 Corinthians 13:8
1 Cor 13:8 is telling us that everything will be outlasted by love - that's apparent and obvious - otherwise, context, context, context. If you're implying that God would say something that contradicts the written word - no; but He will shine new light on how it applies to your life today.
(Namely, that everything the church interprets naturally has a spiritual side for the believer.)
He will have a conversation with you while you work, or walk down the street, or vacation on a mountain, etc.
We can just agree to disagree on this Mike, as there's a ton of bigger fish in Christendom that the masses haven't grasped.
The bible is the word of God, but the word of religious belief is not. The bible is the word of God and he speaks through all creation including what we now know as the bible. Most believers have experienced Gods touch when they were not anywhere near a bible and if a believer is content with only having experienced God through the bible, then AMEN, but it is highly unlikely that they are content with that if they have to minimize the experiences of others who have been touched by God apart from the bible.
We are talking about the Bible as source of information. Let's not confuse that with spiritual experiences which do not add to the word of God. Some people are healed by power of God, and that is great, but that does not add any information to the head of that person.
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The problem is that your assertion is that your religious belief is the word of God, you are not really talking about the bible, you are saying that everything you think the bible means is the word of God. There is a difference.
Your words, not mine.
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There are religious universalists who are just as miserable inside now as when they believed they had to worry about some place called hell
If they were miserable, then (IMO) there is a good chance they never knew Christ. IMO people turn their backs to Christ and start believing other things because they never knew Him.
The bible is the word of God, but the word of religious belief is not. The bible is the word of God and he speaks through all creation including what we now know as the bible. Most believers have experienced Gods touch when they were not anywhere near a bible and if a believer is content with only having experienced God through the bible, then AMEN, but it is highly unlikely that they are content with that if they have to minimize the experiences of others who have been touched by God apart from the bible.
The problem is that your assertion is that your religious belief is the word of God, you are not really talking about the bible, you are saying that everything you think the bible means is the word of God. There is a difference.
Many of us understand how we have been changed for the better through the knowledge of God, some of that comes through the bible, but not all of it. There are religious universalists who are just as miserable inside now as when they believed they had to worry about some place called hell. Their devotion to a book does nothing for them and that is a problem everywhere.
You remain unable to grasp the point. It has nothing to do with physical proximity to a Bible. The contents of the Scriptures, the doctrines of the word must be learned. They must be taken from the Bible and transferred into the soul of the believer where the Holy Spirit makes use of the doctrine. It has nothing to do with the paper on which the words are written. It has everything to do with the contents of the word of God becoming a part of the believers soul. The Bible contains the recorded thoughts of Jesus Christ, and must be inculcated to be of any use in the believers spiritual life.
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
The fact that God speaks through all creation simply means that it is obvious through creation that a creator exists. Looking at creation does not teach you the specifics concerning God. Creation doesn't tell you that God is a Triune Being, doesn't tell you the names of God, doesn't tell you that Jesus came into the world to die for the sins of the world. The Bible, the word of God, Does. A tree doesn't teach you about election. The Bible does. A Butterfly doesn't tell you anything about position in Christ. The Bible does. It is the Bible that is the source of divine revelation concerning God and His plan for man.
You remain unable to grasp the point.
It has nothing to do with physical proximity to a Bible. The contents of the Scriptures, the doctrines of the word must be learned. They must be taken from the Bible and transferred into the soul of the believer where the Holy Spirit makes use of the doctrine.
It has nothing to do with the paper on which the words are written. It has everything to do with the contents of the word of God becoming a part of the believers soul. The Bible contains the recorded thoughts of Jesus Christ, and must be inculcated to be of any use in the believers spiritual life.
I do understand the point, I disagree with what you have said and now the answer you just gave is contradictory.
According to what you have described someone will have to be in proximity to the written word and the paper it is written on in order to learn what it says.
I am telling you it is a fact that many people know what God and Christ are all about, but they never put it into words of any language, it was knowledge of truth in ones heart.
Religion comes along and tries to redefine that truth into physical things that meets the approval of groups of people.
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The fact that God speaks through all creation simply means that it is obvious through creation that a creator exists. Looking at creation does not teach you the specifics concerning God.
Sure it can.
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Creation doesn't tell you that God is a Triune Being
Irrelevant religious assertion.
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, doesn't tell you the names of God,
Sure can, but not by a religious standard which is irrelevant.
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doesn't tell you that Jesus came into the world to die for the sins of the world.
Wrong, I knew of a presence in my life that caused me to understand things I could not put into words. For a time, religious people did a good job trying to beat that out of me so I would look like the group of people that wanted to conform me. But they did not win, what I learned was an association with what I knew to an english word I could relate it too. Nothing more than that. The being I had the good fortune to experience was beyond and not in need of the written word, because I could not even read.
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A tree doesn't teach you about election.
Irrevelant religious jargon.
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A Butterfly doesn't tell you anything about position in Christ. The Bible does.
Oh so wrong. Religiously, in my country, according to relgious men, I would need to speak the english words Christ in order to meet their satsfaction. Fortunatly, I understood the struggle of the butterfly from the cocoon to help me well understand Christ, just not by the approval of a religious faction.
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It is the Bible that is the source of divine revelation concerning God and His plan for man.
I agree it can be found there, but there are many many people that understand God and the nature of what Christ represents and they have never picked up a bible or learned from it's pages, or learned from anyone else who has.
You remain unable to grasp the point. It has nothing to do with physical proximity to a Bible. The contents of the Scriptures, the doctrines of the word must be learned. They must be taken from the Bible and transferred into the soul of the believer where the Holy Spirit makes use of the doctrine. It has nothing to do with the paper on which the words are written. It has everything to do with the contents of the word of God becoming a part of the believers soul. The Bible contains the recorded thoughts of Jesus Christ, and must be inculcated to be of any use in the believers spiritual life.
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
The fact that God speaks through all creation simply means that it is obvious through creation that a creator exists. Looking at creation does not teach you the specifics concerning God. Creation doesn't tell you that God is a Triune Being, doesn't tell you the names of God, doesn't tell you that Jesus came into the world to die for the sins of the world. The Bible, the word of God, Does. A tree doesn't teach you about election. The Bible does. A Butterfly doesn't tell you anything about position in Christ. The Bible does. It is the Bible that is the source of divine revelation concerning God and His plan for man.
But I thought you said that only a qualified teacher + the bible + established doctrine = understanding...(yet the trinity is not understandable) so what about the qualified teacher?
Basically you are saying that the bible lays out doctrine but isn't it true that the qualified teachers (the links you provide) laid out the doctrine by bunching up scripture? It is sad to see that the average joe is unable to connect with God because of such massive restrictions (doctrine, bible, teachers).
I believe God is able to speak to people whether or not they have a bible. Truly if the bible was the living word... we wouldn't need it translated... the holy spirit would translate it for us... right?
1 Cor 13:8 is telling us that everything will be outlasted by love - that's apparent and obvious - otherwise, context, context, context. If you're implying that God would say something that contradicts the written word - no; but He will shine new light on how it applies to your life today.
(Namely, that everything the church interprets naturally has a spiritual side for the believer.)
He will have a conversation with you while you work, or walk down the street, or vacation on a mountain, etc.
We can just agree to disagree on this Mike, as there's a ton of bigger fish in Christendom that the masses haven't grasped.
The passage is also stating that the temporary spiritual gifts have ceased. And I have supplied 3 different sources of information concerning the matter. Don't be telling me about context. I know what I am talking about.
And it seems no matter how often I say it, there are people who can't seen to grasp it. The Holy Spirit only works with the doctrine that the believer has taken from the Bible and transferred into His soul. The Holy Spirit will never teach you, or lead you contrary to what the Scriptures teach. If there is no doctrine in the soul, then there is nothing with which the Holy Spirit has to work. Subjective emotional feelings do not produce spiritual growth. Inculcation of Bible doctrine and application of it to life is what produces spiritual growth. Whatever conversations a person thinks they are having with God in the absence of any doctrinal thought content of the soul are nothing more than emotional subjectivity. The spiritual life of the believer demands objective thought. Whatever emotional responses result are simply that. Emotional responses. And emotional responses are fine, great even. As long as they are not elevated beyond what they should be.
And it seems no matter how often I say it, there are people who can't seen to grasp it. The Holy Spirit only works with the doctrine that the believer has taken from the Bible and transferred into His soul.
People "grasp" what your saying, many just know it is BS.
The passage is also stating that the temporary spiritual gifts have ceased. And I have supplied 3 different sources of information concerning the matter. Don't be telling me about context. I know what I am talking about.
And it seems no matter how often I say it, there are people who can't seen to grasp it. The Holy Spirit only works with the doctrine that the believer has taken from the Bible and transferred into His soul. The Holy Spirit will never teach you, or lead you contrary to what the Scriptures teach. If there is no doctrine in the soul, then there is nothing with which the Holy Spirit has to work. Subjective emotional feelings do not produce spiritual growth. Inculcation of Bible doctrine and application of it to life is what produces spiritual growth. Whatever conversations a person thinks they are having with God in the absence of any doctrinal thought content of the soul are nothing more than emotional subjectivity. The spiritual life of the believer demands objective thought. Whatever emotional responses result are simply that. Emotional responses.
SERIOUSLY? No wonder you think other views are wrong! It is clear to me why so thanks for the explanation.
You say:
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The Holy Spirit only works with the doctrine that the believer has taken from the Bible and transferred into His soul.
I'm wondering what vessel is used in this transfer process? IOW how can you transfer something like doctrine into one's soul?
You say:
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If there is no doctrine in the soul, then there is nothing with which the Holy Spirit has to work.
Yet doesn't scripture actually say that it is the holy spirit that testifies to our spirit? Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
I love this passage in Hosea that beats down the thought that there are FEW saved: Hosea 1:10 Yet the number of the sons of Israel Will be like the sand of the sea, Which cannot be measured or numbered; And in the place Where it is said to them, "You are not My people," It will be said to them, "You are the sons of the living God."
WOW! I love that! Those who were told (are told?) that they are not God's people will be told..."you are sons of the living God!" How great is that?
What doctrine you have deals with Hosea 1:10?
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Whatever conversations a person thinks they are having with God in the absence of any doctrinal thought content of the soul are nothing more than emotional subjectivity.
I still have a problem with the soul as a storage place for doctrine... seems weird considering the scripture seems to say that the spirit is what guides... not the soul. (remember Gen.1 tells us that SPIRIT + BODY = SOUL)
Talk about a convoluted set of rules and regulations... interpretations and doctrine...
Jesus said: "Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering."
Now he was talking about experts in Mosaic law but I would think the same about experts in DOCTRINE! You have taken away the key to knowledge preventing those who seek the gospel from reaching the kingdom.
But I thought you said that only a qualified teacher + the bible + established doctrine = understanding...(yet the trinity is not understandable) so what about the qualified teacher?
God's system for spiritual growth during the church-age. Eph 4:11-16.
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Basically you are saying that the bible lays out doctrine but isn't it true that the qualified teachers (the links you provide) laid out the doctrine by bunching up scripture? It is sad to see that the average joe is unable to connect with God because of such massive restrictions (doctrine, bible, teachers).
I believe God is able to speak to people whether or not they have a bible. Truly if the bible was the living word... we wouldn't need it translated... the holy spirit would translate it for us... right?
Again. Jesus Christ is the Living Word. The Bible is the written word. The thoughts, the thinking of Christ set down in writing, recorded for the purpose of edification.
Orally or written, they are His words. His thoughts. The word of God is alive and powerful.
The passage is also stating that the temporary spiritual gifts have ceased. And I have supplied 3 different sources of information concerning the matter. Don't be telling me about context. I know what I am talking about.
I could give four sources of my own, that's tit for tat.
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Originally Posted by Mike555
The Holy Spirit only works with the doctrine that the believer has taken from the Bible and transferred into His soul. The Holy Spirit will never teach you, or lead you contrary to what the Scriptures teach. The spiritual life of the believer demands objective thought...Whatever emotional responses result are simply that. Emotional responses.
And this is the meat of the matter - I said I believe also that God will not contradict Himself, for He does not change. But I believe what the Spirit is contacting in us when He speaks is not an objective mind - rather it's the life (spirit) He is building in us. This is not simply an intellectual relationship, but a complete abiding within Him. Again, we live, move and have our being in Him. To say that there is not the ability to talk to our Father and He talk to us is ludicrous, imo.
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