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Old 05-25-2010, 09:33 PM
 
Location: Rapid City, SD
723 posts, read 860,579 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
Dale,

How I see it is we are not to see anyone as "our" enemies --- however there will be people who see us as their enemy.

Also I would be interested in who you see as your enemy.
Meerkat,

How are you my old friend?? LOL


I believe just as you answered above. Nobody. Yet , there are people who consider me their enemy. And they would be my enemy. Do I love them?? Yes, in the sense that I do not wish ill will toward them. Yes, in the sense that I hope only the best for them. Yes, in the sense that I will pray that their hatred toward me or anyone else disappear. Yes, in the sense that I pray for God to change their dark heart. Do I love them as myself?? No, in the sense that I will not let them into my house. No, in the sense that I will not give them my clothes. No, in the sense that I will not give them my money. So you see it is simple, I love them. Just not as I love myself!!

I hope this makes it a little more clear.
This is what Verna meant as well.


GOD BLESS!!!
DALE
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Old 05-25-2010, 09:52 PM
 
3,585 posts, read 464,294 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALMOST2L8 View Post
Meerkat,

How are you my old friend?? LOL


I believe just as you answered above. Nobody. Yet , there are people who consider me their enemy. And they would be my enemy. Do I love them?? Yes, in the sense that I do not wish ill will toward them. Yes, in the sense that I hope only the best for them. Yes, in the sense that I will pray that their hatred toward me or anyone else disappear. Yes, in the sense that I pray for God to change their dark heart. Do I love them as myself?? No, in the sense that I will not let them into my house. No, in the sense that I will not give them my clothes. No, in the sense that I will not give them my money. So you see it is simple, I love them. Just not as I love myself!!

I hope this makes it a little more clear.
This is what Verna meant as well.


GOD BLESS!!!
DALE
But how many "neighbours" do you feed, clothe, and give money to? I would hazard a guess not many, if any.........

If I saw someone in need I would try to help, and the help that I would give them would depend on their level of co-operation with me, and would also depend on my physical and emotional resources..........



So when you see a person on the street and they are homeless do you invite them into your house if they do not consider you their enemy, if they do not think you are their enemy by your and Verna's definition they are then your neighbour and if you love them as yourself, do you invite them into your home, give them your money?
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Old 05-25-2010, 10:13 PM
 
3,585 posts, read 464,294 times
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Dale,

I do believe that we are basically on the same page ..............
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Old 05-25-2010, 10:30 PM
 
Location: Rapid City, SD
723 posts, read 860,579 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
the help that I would give them would depend on their level of co-operation with me, and would also depend on my physical and emotional resources..........
AMEN!!!!



Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2
So when you see a person on the street and they are homeless do you invite them into your house if they do not consider you their enemy, if they do not think you are their enemy by your and Verna's definition they are then your neighbour and if you love them as yourself, do you invite them into your home, give them your money?
I would invite them into my home if they were my neighbor/brother/sister in christ!! A stranger not so much. Not as a love issue, but a trust in the world today issue. I would be happy to help a stranger in need with a room for a night/week, or whatever means I could afford. Buy them a meal?? Sure. Give them money?? Sure. Love a stranger? Yes. Trust a stranger? No.


GOD BLESS!!!
DALE
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Old 05-25-2010, 10:32 PM
 
Location: Rapid City, SD
723 posts, read 860,579 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
Dale,

I do believe that we are basically on the same page ..............
same page, different books!!! LOL

GOD BLESS!!!
DALE
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Old 05-25-2010, 10:35 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,251,709 times
Reputation: 837
Dear sparrow...I have gone back and re-quoted the past posts in a way to reiterate what has already been said...to make it a little more easier to go through...and I only capitalize to emphasize...not to yell...and I only color certain texts to make them stand out from the rest...but I say all this in love toward you...I truly do want you (and others) to understand...

Please note that the meaning of "Believer", according to scripture, means "obedient faith"...and this is where the problems begin...and from there, the very basics, begins the confusion...all the rest from thereon ( if the very basics of what a "believer" truly means are mis-understood), looses it's power...looses the Spirit of Truth...causing confusion.

God Bless you sparrow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Thank you sparrow...for asking so respectfully...it causes me to want to to answer you.

Yes...that is what I am saying.

Neighbor and brother are synonymous terms that mean "fellow believers." My neighbor is my brother or sister in Christ (a believer) and no one else. Neighbor and brother mean, Christian.

Jesus quoted from Leviticus 19:18 when He said "love thy neighbor as thyself."

16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among THY PEOPLE: neither shall thou stand against the blood of THY NEIGHBOR. I am the Lord.

17 Thou shalt not hate THY BROTHER in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke THY NEIGHBOR, and not suffer sin upon him.

18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the CHILDREN OF THY PEOPLE, but thou shalt love THY NEIGHBOR as thyself.

Neighbor, brother and thy people are used as synonyms. Jesus was commanding us to not bear any grudge against fellow Israelites but to love them "as thyself."...and this command applies only to the people of God...those who obey the laws of God.

In Christ's love...In His truth,
Verna.
Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
Verna
Who is your neighbour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Those who do the will of my Father.
Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post
You were asked "Who is your neighbor" the above is your reply.
If Jesus command was to love our neighbor as ourself, are you limiting your love to only those you feel are doing the will of God? Or is that not what you meant? I'm trying to understand your view.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Hello sparrow.

We are only required to love our brother's, sister's, neighbors and strangers as we would love ourselves....as we are all living together in the will of our father.
We are commanded to love our enemies...and we love our enemies by showing them the fruits of our spirit...love, joy, peace, meekness, gentleness, longsuffering, forgiveness...but we are not commanded to love our enemies as we would love ourselves, or as we would love our brothers, sisters, neighbor's or strangers that live among us. That is the difference...it is written.

In Christ's love...In His truth,
Verna.
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I think this whole thing can be cleared up by:

Matt 25:43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' "He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

I think it implies that we should treat even STRANGERS as our neighbor. You are not justified in withholding LOVE (GOD) from anyone. IMO
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Amen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Are we all neighbors?
Personally, I believe so.
"Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another." Eph. 4:25.

The lawyer repeated the passage that he apparently knew by heart: "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself."

Jesus gave him a hint about what the Kingdom of God is all about: "And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live"

Unfortunately, the lawyer (it could've perhaps been anybody at this point) wants to JUSTIFY himself, or try to make himself look right before God: "But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?"

Do we also try to "justify" ourselves before God regarding who we think our neighbor should/shouldn't be? Does it bother us that the beggar on the street could actually be our neighbor, a member of us?

Blessings to all,
brian
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
...an enemy/wicked,unbeliever is not a member, one with another with a believer...a brother, sister, neighbor, and stranger, which are called such because they are believer's...All members of one Christian household.
We know [who is a member of our Christian household] by their fruits...how they live...how they speak...their attitudes, etc......obedient [to the commandments of God?]...or not...? Good tree..good fruit...bad tree...bad fruit.
It should...we should show all people love, joy, peace, longsuffering, forgiveness, gentleness, meekness...it's hard sometimes, showing all these fruits to a wicked, non-believer...because they themselves are sometimes very, very evil in their words and treatment toward a believer....and towards the God that they love so deeply.

In Christ's love...In His truth,
Verna.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
kat...you quoted Matthew 25 and said it proved that "everyone" was a neighbor..but you missed this part:

Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these "my brethren," ye have done it unto me.

It does not apply to all - just brethren of Jesus, and it is easy to prove that his brethren are those who hear the word of God and "DO" it!

>>>>>>>Mat 12:50 For "whosoever shall do the will" of my Father which is in heaven, "the same is my brother, and sister", and mother.<<<<<<<

Luk 8:21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and "my brethren" are these which hear the word of God, and "DO" it.

A couple of questions for everyone...

1. If all men are our neighbors...then why did God have the Israelites destroy all their "neighbors"?....

"Love your neighbor "as you love yourself."

2. If all men our are neighbors then what about the homeless alcoholic or drug addict begging on the street corners? If they are your neighbor and you do not love them as you love yourself - are you sinning? Do you feed them as you feed yourself? Do you bring them into your home?

Isa 58:6 "Is not this the fast that I choose:....
Isa 58:7 Is it not to share your bread with the hungry and "bring the homeless poor into your house"; "when you see the naked, to cover him,
and not to hide yourself from your own flesh?"

In Christ's love...In His truth,
Verna.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
The stranger was a gentile who had joined himself to the Lord and kept God's commandments.

Although the stranger who sojourned in the land was not a fellow Israelite, he was to be treated as a brother ("as one born among you") because God said the sojourner was required to obey the laws of God just as the Israelite:

"ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgements, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, NOR ANY STRANGER THAT SOJOURNETH AMONG YOU: (Lev 18:26)

"The sojourner [STRANGER] could be circumcised (Exod 12:48) and enjoy all the privileges of true religion: the Passover (Exod 12:49) the Atonement feast (Lev 16:29) presenting offerings (Lev 17:8) all the feasts (Deut 16:11) and share in the sabbath rest. (Lev 25:6)"

Vine's Dictionary of Biblical Words


In Christ's love...In his truth,
Verna.
Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post
Verna, I still don't understand what you are saying here.
It's like you are saying to love, then you turn around and say don't love.
I'm not following you.
Dear, sweet sparrow...I believe that the reason you are having such a hard time understanding...after all that has been said thus far...is because we, from the basics, understand God's truth differently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparrow
The way I believe God has spoken to my heart is that all of creation is my neighbor. There is no-one that is NOT my neighbor.
The way I believe God has spoken to my heart is that anyone who is in the will of my Father...or in other words...anyone who keeps the Ten Commandments of God, and does not wilfully sin...and observes the seventh day as the Sabbath day of rest in the LORD...he it is who IS my brother...sister...neighbor...and any stranger who comes into the fold and follows the commandments of God, who lives in the will of my Father.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparrow
Love is love.
Yes, love is love...but the love you speak of is different than the LOVE I speak of. You see...we have come full circle to the very first OP..."Is God Love?"...From the very core of what "THIS" LOVE of God IS...and the true understanding of what THAT KIND OF LOVE [according to the Word of God] ENTAILS...is foundational.


[quote=sparrow]How are you gauging what type of love to give? Again, I am not following you.[/quote]


...I gauge it by what Scripture teaches me...purely and wholly...it is crystal clear to me what He means.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparrow
Who are your enemies?
My enemies are God's enemies...anyone who does not believe in Him and His Son my Savior...anyone who does not live in the will of my Father...who does not keep the commandments of God...INCLUDING keeping the Sabbath holy unto God.

In Christ's love...In His truth,
Verna.

Last edited by Verna Perry; 05-25-2010 at 10:48 PM..
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Old 05-25-2010, 10:50 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,422,645 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALMOST2L8 View Post
Hello lego,

I have a couple of questions for you!!

Love your enemies, YES!! Love your enemies as yourselves, NO!!! How can they be an enemy if you love them soooo much??? Who would you consider an enemy???

Just curious!!


GOD BLESS!!!
DALE
I suppose someone who hates me is an enemy. But the real enemy is darkness, ignorance, hate.

I think the idea is, if we truly love our enemies, they wouldn't be enemies for long.

Love will conquer all. It will destroy our enemies - by turning them into friends! The problem is we are not that good at loving people yet (both us and our enemies). That is why Christ must work in us. I trust He will finish the work He has started.

God bless Dale...
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Old 05-25-2010, 10:53 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,422,645 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALMOST2L8 View Post
Yet , there are people who consider me their enemy. And they would be my enemy. Do I love them?? Yes, in the sense that I do not wish ill will toward them. Yes, in the sense that I hope only the best for them. Yes, in the sense that I will pray that their hatred toward me or anyone else disappear. Yes, in the sense that I pray for God to change their dark heart. Do I love them as myself?? No, in the sense that I will not let them into my house. No, in the sense that I will not give them my clothes. No, in the sense that I will not give them my money. So you see it is simple, I love them. Just not as I love myself!!

GOD BLESS!!!
DALE
Yes I think I agree with you. But maybe it is not as simple. Jesus said to turn the other cheek, and to give someone your shirt if they take your coat. That is where it gets hard.
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Old 05-25-2010, 10:54 PM
 
3,585 posts, read 464,294 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALMOST2L8 View Post
same page, different books!!! LOL

GOD BLESS!!!
DALE
Yes You are looking to the OT and the physical laws that were given to the physical Israelites

Jesus gives some revision on the pharisees understanding of what the law was about ........... in Matt 5

Mat 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Mat 5:40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
Mat 5:41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
Mat 5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:14 PM
 
5,752 posts, read 4,602,412 times
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Hi Verna... Ok, now I understand what you are saying.
And yes, we do not believe the same things about who our neighbor is.
Thank you for explaining what you believe.
sparrow
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