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Old 05-25-2010, 10:02 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,775,452 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
And so on...the point is, God always has a plan above what is simply comprehended by the natural mind.
Yes He does Elmer......we think we can figure it all out but there's no way to do that when it comes to the mind of God.
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Old 05-25-2010, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,417,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
That is because I was, and am still, searching out what the differences between the doctrines of man, and the Word of God. Both could not be right. Look at the world, and this is evident.

So, is it called wishy washy to travel down the road towards God called life? There are turns that must be explored? But the Spirit always led me back down the right and True path of Christ, and continues to this day. Even if these turns were half-truths that needed to simply be explored, so that when the Truth is revealed, it is certain. Only a willfully ignorant person would believe everything without searching it out.

The wicked are destroyed. Their names are blotted out forever. Ps 9:5

I did just not head down the UR road. I defended it as my own. Until the Light went off. And you know what caused the questioning of this doctrine to come into play? Jesus' own Words.

I wish that ALL would be saved. But, even if there is a 99% chance of salvation,,there is still a problem. Jesus said this to the religious leaders of His day. The unforgivable sin. Because if there is just 1 sin that cannot be forgiven, then UR loses it's wholeness.
People on this board attribute UR to satan... that is the very definition of the unforgivable sin... attributing what is God's to satan. Regardless if UR is correct or not, when you say someone is motivated by the devil and they are a christian (UR/ET/AN yet motivated by the spirit of God) that is blasphemy of the holy spirit. Therefore unless you think many on this board are never to be forgiven... then I would say we have a problem.

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Old 05-25-2010, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,691 posts, read 32,136,817 times
Reputation: 9452
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
People on this board attribute UR to satan... that is the very definition of the unforgivable sin... attributing what is God's to satan. Regardless if UR is correct or not, when you say someone is motivated by the devil and they are a christian (UR/ET/AN yet motivated by the spirit of God) that is blasphemy of the holy spirit. Therefore unless you think many on this board are never to be forgiven... then I would say we have a problem.

Leave the judging to God!

Besides your continued efforts to promote the doctrine or universalism to a level equal with the Holy Spirit is questionable in itself. Criticism of UR is same as blasphemy of the Holy Spirit???? Give me a break. UR is a false teaching, and it is ok to expose it as such. You sound more and more like the pharisees trying to accuse others of blasphemy.
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Old 05-25-2010, 10:54 AM
 
Location: RV Park
7,544 posts, read 11,589,052 times
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Maybe this board needs a sticky on what Universalim is, and what it's not...
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,417,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Leave the judging to God!

Besides your continued efforts to promote the doctrine or universalism to a level equal with the Holy Spirit is questionable in itself. Criticism of UR is same as blasphemy of the Holy Spirit???? Give me a break. UR is a false teaching, and it is ok to expose it as such. You sound more and more like the pharisees trying to accuse others of blasphemy.
My thoughts in bold:

Matt. 12:
22Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see.
23All the people were astonished and said, “Could this be the Son of David?”

People started to believe he was the Messiah!


24But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “It is only by Beelzebub, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons.”
The Pharisees said, "Doctrine of the devil! He does not have the spirit of God but the spirit of the Devil!


25Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand.
26If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? 27And if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.



Jesus says, "What good would it do for Satan to drive out Satan", similar to.. why would Satan promote loving everyone and everyone is saved (both very GOOD things and UR tenets)? A BAD Satan cannot promote GOOD things! He is divided against himself! The kingdom of heaven is upon you so you reject it!

29“Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man’s house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can rob his house.
30“He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. 31And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
33“Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. 34You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. 35The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. 36But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. 37For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”

The Pharisees were accused of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (the unforgivable sin) because they said what he did was of Satan. Clearly what I am saying is much closer to that of Jesus. By stating that UR is a doctrine of the devil you are blaspheming the HS. I can tell you that this is no "doctrine of the devil"... whether right or wrong in our theology we are all people following Christ and producing Good fruit in love. Therefore you attribute the following of Christ and producing of Good fruit in love to the devil just as the Pharisees did.

Now this goes the other way too. A URer stating that ET is the doctrine of the devil could be considered the same thing.


Now with all these things going on daily on this forum... I hardly think it is an unforgivable sin to do it to one another... rather it is when the pharisees actually stood in front of Jesus and said he was of the devil. I doubt this can happen since he is not physically on earth at this time.


Let us reason here! Reading the scripture is much the same as reading any other book. We don't have to project into the future what was written in that age.


If you think UR is of the devil and I think UR is of God... which one is the blasphemer?

If I think ET is of the devil and you think ET is of God... which one is the blasphemer?
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Old 05-25-2010, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,691 posts, read 32,136,817 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
The Pharisees were accused of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (the unforgivable sin) because they said what he did was of Satan. Clearly what I am saying is much closer to that of Jesus. By stating that UR is a doctrine of the devil you are blaspheming the HS. I can tell you that this is no "doctrine of the devil"...
Just because you raise your doctrine to the same level as the Holy Spirit then you think you can accuse anyone who doesn't agree with it for blasphemy?!?!? Every Satanist and teaches of false doctrine will be happy to use that argument. All you need to do is declare your own belief as the religion of God, and if anyone points out that it is not so, you accuse them of blasphemy.

Anything that is not Biblical is from Satan, and that goes for UR. It is not Biblical.

PS I never assused anyone of blasphemy.
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Old 05-25-2010, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,695,132 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Just because you raise your doctrine to the same level as the Holy Spirit then you think you can accuse anyone who doesn't agree with it for blasphemy?!?!? Every Satanist and teaches of false doctrine will be happy to use that argument. All you need to do is declare your own belief as the religion of God, and if anyone points out that it is not so, you accuse them of blasphemy.

Anything that is not Biblical is from Satan, and that goes for UR. It is not Biblical.

PS I never assused anyone of blasphemy.
Kat's said this before and I just roll my eyes.
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Old 05-25-2010, 02:22 PM
 
37,661 posts, read 25,371,376 times
Reputation: 5865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Just because you raise your doctrine to the same level as the Holy Spirit then you think you can accuse anyone who doesn't agree with it for blasphemy?!?!? Every Satanist and teaches of false doctrine will be happy to use that argument. All you need to do is declare your own belief as the religion of God, and if anyone points out that it is not so, you accuse them of blasphemy.

Anything that is not Biblical is from Satan, and that goes for UR. It is not Biblical.
Anything that is not Biblical is NOT Biblean . . . but Satan has had millennia to corrupt the Bible translations and early primitive interpretations. Christianity, however, is about Christ who is the Truth, the Way and the Life . . . NOT the Bible. Of course . . . for Bibleans apparently Jesus is dead and only words "written in ink" are available . . . NOT the living Word of God Jesus Himself!

Last edited by MysticPhD; 05-25-2010 at 02:47 PM..
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Old 05-25-2010, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,392,057 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
Maybe this board needs a sticky on what Universalim is, and what it's not...
That would be nice.
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Old 05-26-2010, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,417,270 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Just because you raise your doctrine to the same level as the Holy Spirit then you think you can accuse anyone who doesn't agree with it for blasphemy?!?!? Every Satanist and teaches of false doctrine will be happy to use that argument. All you need to do is declare your own belief as the religion of God, and if anyone points out that it is not so, you accuse them of blasphemy.

Anything that is not Biblical is from Satan, and that goes for UR. It is not Biblical.

PS I never assused anyone of blasphemy.
The question is not what I think but what God thinks... WHAT IF you are wrong and UR is of God? Then you HAVE blasphemed the HS. Right? I don't believe this is the case because I believe the whole chapter is about then not now... but using YOUR paradigm it would be blasphemous and the sin that is not forgiven...

My point was that if you believe there is an unforgivable sin shouldn't you be more careful about what you attribute to satan... WHAT if you are wrong?
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