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Old 05-26-2010, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,419,323 times
Reputation: 1690

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Here is what I was actually replying to:
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post

I wish that ALL would be saved. But, even if there is a 99% chance of salvation,,there is still a problem. Jesus said this to the religious leaders of His day. The unforgivable sin. Because if there is just 1 sin that cannot be forgiven, then UR loses it's wholeness.
I replied this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
People on this board attribute UR to satan... that is the very definition of the unforgivable sin... attributing what is God's to satan. Regardless if UR is correct or not, when you say someone is motivated by the devil and they are a christian (UR/ET/AN yet motivated by the spirit of God) that is blasphemy of the holy spirit. Therefore unless you think many on this board are never to be forgiven... then I would say we have a problem.

So the premise was that people accuse each other of being "of the devil" all the time. I have heard Christians say this to each other time and time again. Yet that is what the definition of the unforgivable sin is!!!!

So if that is the only thing stopping you from believing that all are saved then the percentage should be 50 not 99. However, if this applied to only face to face with Jesus in the 1st century.. do you have to worry about that sin NOW? Therefore the percentage is 100 (unless you count the pharisees as not saved...?)

Perhaps I wasn't as clear, or you were just commenting to comment?

You wrote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Leave the judging to God!

Besides your continued efforts to promote the doctrine or universalism to a level equal with the Holy Spirit is questionable in itself. Criticism of UR is same as blasphemy of the Holy Spirit???? Give me a break. UR is a false teaching, and it is ok to expose it as such. You sound more and more like the pharisees trying to accuse others of blasphemy.
So here you say I "sound more like the pharisees trying to accuse others of blasphemy" and I showed you that is not true. However... the pharisees DID blaspheme in saying that Jesus was doing something by the power of Satan and not the HS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
The question is not what I think but what God thinks... WHAT IF you are wrong and UR is of God? Then you HAVE blasphemed the HS. Right? I don't believe this is the case because I believe the whole chapter is about then not now... but using YOUR paradigm it would be blasphemous and the sin that is not forgiven...

My point was that if you believe there is an unforgivable sin shouldn't you be more careful about what you attribute to satan... WHAT if you are wrong?
Does that clear it up for you?
And no one answered this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post

If you think UR is of the devil and I think UR is of God... which one is the blasphemer?

If I think ET is of the devil and you think ET is of God... which one is the blasphemer?
Obviously attributing what is of God to satan is the unforgivable sin... so what Christ-follower in the above is guilty of the unforgivable sin?
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Old 05-26-2010, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,419,323 times
Reputation: 1690
Oh and the other thing is that after Jesus talked about the unforgivable sin... He said "Father forgive them for they know not what they do"

Ask and it shall be given... Jesus asked for them all to be forgiven anyway. There is no unforgivable sin.

IMO
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Old 06-04-2010, 06:25 PM
 
26 posts, read 20,286 times
Reputation: 16
Universalism is antichristian. The bible is suficient and true and all men are liar. There is only one God and his name is Jesus. The world will tell you anything to confuse you. Falow what is true, the bible! Jesus died beacu it is not enough to be good. No one is good or righteous in front of a holy God. Read the book of Roman and you will understand why you can`t work your way to salvation

There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”[b]
13 “ Their throat is an open tomb;
With their tongues they have practiced deceit”;[c]

“ The poison of asps is under their lips”;[d]
14 “ Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”[e]
15 “ Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways;
17 And the way of peace they have not known.”[f]
18 “ There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

Jesus is the only one that can change your heart. Jesus said if you beleive in me, you will know the truth and the truth will set you free. Look for the truth in the scripture and put it in practice.

For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
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Old 06-04-2010, 06:30 PM
 
Location: RV Park
7,544 posts, read 11,591,635 times
Reputation: 4469
The very One who died is what UR is all about. ET is about the guy with the small "s".
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Old 06-04-2010, 09:30 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,365 posts, read 20,092,063 times
Reputation: 2117
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonnerre2000 View Post
Universalism is antichristian. The bible is suficient and true and all men are liar. There is only one God and his name is Jesus. The world will tell you anything to confuse you. Falow what is true, the bible! Jesus died beacu it is not enough to be good. No one is good or righteous in front of a holy God. Read the book of Roman and you will understand why you can`t work your way to salvation

There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”[b]
13 “ Their throat is an open tomb;
With their tongues they have practiced deceit”;[c]

“ The poison of asps is under their lips”;[d]
14 “ Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”[e]
15 “ Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways;
17 And the way of peace they have not known.”[f]
18 “ There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

Jesus is the only one that can change your heart. Jesus said if you beleive in me, you will know the truth and the truth will set you free. Look for the truth in the scripture and put it in practice.

For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
Answer me this , If someone died in your place who gets to live ?
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Old 06-07-2010, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 5,466,454 times
Reputation: 934
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
The bible doesn't say we have to accept Jesus as Savior. It says He IS the Savior of the world. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, not just a few. He died to save us from sin and death, not a literal lake of fire.

"The wages of sin are death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." John 17:3 says, "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." Some will "know Him" in this lifetime, and when you know Him you want to live by the Spirit and not sin against God. When you "know Him," you want to keep His commandments, and Jesus said the two greatest ones are to love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself.

So it's not about "accepting" Him, but about knowing Him, loving Him and others, and living for Him. When these things take place, we are filled with Him - His love, and we are saved from sin. His death on the cross conquered death and the grave, so we are ultimately also saved from death.


God put our hearts into our chests so that we could live, but just because we now have a heart, that doesn't mean the heart is no longer necessary. God gave us Jesus to give us life, but that certainly doesn't mean He's no longer necessary. Hope this helps!

So, it's enough to know that He is the Saviour, without accepting the hand being extended today? It's not about "accepting" Him? What kind of nonsense are you preaching?

So you're on a sinking boat, surely you will die! Along come a passerby and throws you a lifeline..... "Thank you good sir, but I don't need that, I'm saved already"! Huh? "No, really I am, I know it. I can feel it." (glub, glub, while swallowing salt water...)


It's enough to "know" that you're saved? Do nothing different? Don't reach out and grab the lifeline? The LIFELINE being Jesus Christ? It's ENOUGH to know He saves? Really? WOW!! WHO HAS BLINDED YOU?
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Old 06-07-2010, 08:42 PM
 
5,756 posts, read 4,606,683 times
Reputation: 4186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
So, it's enough to know that He is the Saviour, without accepting the hand being extended today? It's not about "accepting" Him? What kind of nonsense are you preaching?

So you're on a sinking boat, surely you will die! Along come a passerby and throws you a lifeline..... "Thank you good sir, but I don't need that, I'm saved already"! Huh? "No, really I am, I know it. I can feel it." (glub, glub, while swallowing salt water...)


It's enough to "know" that you're saved? Do nothing different? Don't reach out and grab the lifeline? The LIFELINE being Jesus Christ? It's ENOUGH to know He saves? Really? WOW!! WHO HAS BLINDED YOU?
Betsey...

Read again what she said:
Quote:

So it's not about "accepting" Him, but about knowing Him, loving Him and others, and living for Him. When these things take place, we are filled with Him - His love, and we are saved from sin. His death on the cross conquered death and the grave, so we are ultimately also saved from death.


God put our hearts into our chests so that we could live, but just because we now have a heart, that doesn't mean the heart is no longer necessary. God gave us Jesus to give us life, but that certainly doesn't mean He's no longer necessary
peace,
sparrow
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Old 06-07-2010, 08:52 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 5,466,454 times
Reputation: 934
Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post
Betsey...

Read again what she said:


peace,
sparrow
Okay.....read it, and? Again, I ask.......Is it enough to "know" Him? I don't have to accept, believe? Wow......the very same lie, told from the beginning! The very same one! No, YOU re-read what's been said. See, I "knew" of Christ ALL OF MY LIFE! Was raised that way, until I said YES to HIS WILL and HIS WAY, reached out and grabbed the LIFELINE, it's only then, and then alone, that I was saved from self! YES, I did something d-i-f-f-e-r-e-n-t, I said YES!!

Stop it!! It's too late in the hour for a feel good story!!

Last edited by Betsey Lane; 06-07-2010 at 09:06 PM..
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Old 06-07-2010, 09:00 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,220,482 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
So, it's enough to know that He is the Saviour, without accepting the hand being extended today? It's not about "accepting" Him? What kind of nonsense are you preaching?

So you're on a sinking boat, surely you will die! Along come a passerby and throws you a lifeline..... "Thank you good sir, but I don't need that, I'm saved already"! Huh? "No, really I am, I know it. I can feel it." (glub, glub, while swallowing salt water...)


It's enough to "know" that you're saved? Do nothing different? Don't reach out and grab the lifeline? The LIFELINE being Jesus Christ? It's ENOUGH to know He saves? Really? WOW!! WHO HAS BLINDED YOU?
Where is the story about the Guy in the boat who refuses to accept the rope thrown to him to be found in the scriptures?

I missed that one ... I mean if it were scriptural i guess you would have a point, but its not.

As a matter of fact, the scriptures teach that God changes the hearts of the wicked, not that they choose to change their own hearts.

Christ doesn't come along and offer us salvation, he declares it ...

As it is Christ in God who declares those things which are not as though they were.

You cannot logically defend your position, and it is obvious. Cute little analogy and all, but just like the boat in which your hapless Guy is sinking, it doesn't hold water ...
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Old 06-07-2010, 09:03 PM
 
5,756 posts, read 4,606,683 times
Reputation: 4186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
Okay.....read it, and?
What did you get out of the quote I posted? Her words?
What did you understand out of it? I'm asking because I'm wondering what is it that you object to (in that specific quote).
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