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Old 06-08-2010, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,610 posts, read 31,995,277 times
Reputation: 9427

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
This does not mean they are damned.
There is hope as long as you are breathing.

Again, read Romans 14 if you want to know what it is about.
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Old 06-08-2010, 12:40 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,692,673 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
There is hope as long as you are breathing.

Again, read Romans 14 if you want to know what it is about.


There is no passage in Romans that says "There is hope as long as you are breathing.

If you interpret it to say that, that is your business, but I have no reason to adopt it.
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Old 06-08-2010, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,610 posts, read 31,995,277 times
Reputation: 9427
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
There is no passage in Romans that says "There is hope as long as you are breathing.

If you interpret it to say that, that is your business, but I have no reason to adopt it.
Eeeehhh.....I mentioned two or three times already that it is about judging.

OK, time to call it quits. You are slipping into your word twisting mode, and I know from past experience that it's all downhill form here.

Talk to you later on another thread....
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Old 06-08-2010, 01:22 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,692,673 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Eeeehhh.....I mentioned two or three times already that it is about judging.

OK, time to call it quits. You are slipping into your word twisting mode, and I know from past experience that it's all downhill form here.

Talk to you later on another thread....
Of course it goes down hill for you.
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Old 06-08-2010, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,610 posts, read 31,995,277 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Of course it goes down hill for you.
I was talking about the quality of the conversation, and your comment confirms I was right.
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Old 06-08-2010, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,405,317 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Eeeehhh.....I mentioned two or three times already that it is about judging.

OK, time to call it quits. You are slipping into your word twisting mode, and I know from past experience that it's all downhill form here.

Talk to you later on another thread....
I agree with Phaze...

Romans 14:9-12 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. It is written:“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.’”
So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.



But didn't Paul address that it is the master (God) who decides these things:
Romans 14:4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

Why does Paul say that?

"and he WILL stand for the Lord is able to MAKE him stand."

WILL STAND -
stathēsetai: cause to stand, establish, hold up

MAKE HIM STAND - stēsai: Cause to stand, establish, hold up

It is the same word different form...

I can see that someone will say that the Lord is ABLE but won't, even though it says he will stand because the Lord is ABLE...

So let's look at the word Paul used: dunatei - to be efficient (figuratively) -- be mighty, able, powerful

I think it is clear that men will stand for God will MAKE him stand!

Stand is another word for persevere or overcome...
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Old 06-08-2010, 02:43 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,724,249 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
There is hope as long as you are breathing.

Again, read Romans 14 if you want to know what it is about.
Romans 14:
7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
9For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11It is written:
" 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord,
'every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.' " 12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.


The word "hope" is not even in Romans 14. It is mostly talking about what people eat and drink, and it's telling people not to judge each other, and emphasizing that all will be judged. However, the verses above sound pretty hopeful to me.
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Old 06-08-2010, 02:52 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,724,249 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
So, it's enough to know that He is the Saviour, without accepting the hand being extended today? It's not about "accepting" Him? What kind of nonsense are you preaching?

So you're on a sinking boat, surely you will die! Along come a passerby and throws you a lifeline..... "Thank you good sir, but I don't need that, I'm saved already"! Huh? "No, really I am, I know it. I can feel it." (glub, glub, while swallowing salt water...)


It's enough to "know" that you're saved? Do nothing different? Don't reach out and grab the lifeline? The LIFELINE being Jesus Christ? It's ENOUGH to know He saves? Really? WOW!! WHO HAS BLINDED YOU?
It looks like others have covered this pretty thoroughly, and have shown that a true Savior saves, and doesn't merely politely stand by hoping to be invited by someone to save them.

I didn't say that knowing He is the Savior is enough. I said it's about "knowing Him." I know who the President of the U.S. is, but I don't know him. There's a difference. Saying that it is "enough" shows that you aren't getting the message of what we are trying to say. NOTHING we could ever do would be enough, which is the reason Jesus died - to save us because we can't save ourselves.
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Old 06-08-2010, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,691,772 times
Reputation: 528
Hi BHFT! It's good to "see" you
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Old 06-08-2010, 02:59 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,692,673 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I was talking about the quality of the conversation, and your comment confirms I was right.
Not really, You are the one that made the accusation that I was going to twist your words. My reply was a point of fact. It goes down hill because you took it there, not me.

I am not bothered, I am pointing out your problem.
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