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Old 06-09-2010, 11:37 AM
 
159 posts, read 91,090 times
Reputation: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
The topic was not refining fire, but God's sovereignty and how he creates people for different purposes, some even for destruction so he can show his power.
If that's the topic, can you answer my post from previous two pages?
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Old 06-09-2010, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,657,990 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
You chaned the topic, and then your friends rushed in like roaches to to defend you and the new topic. No, I won't play.

Let me know when you are ready to get back to the topic. The topic was not refining fire, but God's sovereignty and how he creates people for different purposes, some even for destruction so he can show his power.
Okay.. we can but it is the same topic.

Creating people for a purpose (even destruction) is God's prerogative. However... where do you get the idea that destroying people shows God's power? Did it show Hitler's power when he destroyed people?

(BTW- Now I am changing the topic a bit)
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Old 06-09-2010, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
34,832 posts, read 12,170,618 times
Reputation: 4342
Quote:
Originally Posted by python87 View Post
If that's the topic, can you answer my post from previous two pages?
The one with these comments?

Quote:
For that matter how do you know Bible wasn't inspired by Satan?
Quote:

Your deity is simply NOT trustworthy


No, I don't think we have anythign to talk about. You are out to deny God outright, so I won't even get into it. Sorry. The URers might be interested though, because your line of thinking is much closer to theirs than mine.
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Old 06-09-2010, 11:45 AM
 
159 posts, read 91,090 times
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So... how do you know? Lalalala I can't hear you is not an answer.
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Old 06-09-2010, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
34,832 posts, read 12,170,618 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Okay.. we can but it is the same topic.

Creating people for a purpose (even destruction) is God's prerogative. However... where do you get the idea that destroying people shows God's power? Did it show Hitler's power when he destroyed people?

(BTW- Now I am changing the topic a bit)
You don't think Hitler felt powerful? I am sure he felt mightily powerful, and for a while he was the most powerful MAN on the planet. But of course Hitler was only a man, and not God.

Where did I hear it? God says in his own words he raised Pharaoh and destroyed him only to show his power in the him. It defines the sovereignty of God and his own comment ""I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." and "Jacob I loved, and Esau I hated".
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Old 06-09-2010, 11:57 AM
 
159 posts, read 91,090 times
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Jarber, the question I asked was one of credibility... How credible is the idea that doesn't have any real justification? And how credible is God that would torture people on arbitrary criteria? No more than Hitler, if you ask me.
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Old 06-09-2010, 12:15 PM
 
9,424 posts, read 4,907,477 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
ok. so if you don't need to believe in hell in order to be saved, why mention it?

blessings,
brian
Liability.
Think about it. Why all the warning labels on products and instructions? ... When a maker or service provider discloses any hazzards or life threating consequense for improper usage, you can't claim in court that you havn't been warned. They aren't liable for not heeding the warnings.

The Maker (God) has no liability.
  • He did warn before the rebellion. Genesis 2:17
  • Humanity can't argue\plead ignorance Romans 3:19
  • Jesus warns (Multiple verses)
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Old 06-09-2010, 12:20 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 3,373,190 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
He did warn before the rebellion. Genesis 2:17
If you equate the term "Hell" to a place of eternal misery, then no, you will not find one ounce of warning to that effect for Adam and Eve.
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Old 06-09-2010, 12:30 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,009,832 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
You could... and I would be fine with that.

However, we can see by Finn's next post that he was simply commenting on the lack of credibility with a wikipedia explanation rather than the point of the post...

I hear your sweet soul and I appreciate it but I am not one who thinks people should be so easily offended by simple things like that. However, you are 100% correct that the way it was presented (as if BHFT had the line on the things of God) was probably said in haste, but I translated that to mean that Finn wasn't interested in the analogy of Potter and Clay... and you can see by his posts that he is not interested in it but is attacking wikipedia.

Anyway... we should probably move on. I found the explanation given by wikipedia and BHFT to be very helpful in understanding that FIRE is not just a destroyer but a refiner, and perfecter.
Thanks, Kat. You are right that I answered in haste, but to tell you the truth, I did use my backspace key a few times before I narrowed it down to that! It was offensive to me that he insinuated that Wikipedia somehow was a substitute for the bible for me (that's how I took it), when obviously, I was using it to explain how a potter makes clay since I am not a potter and couldn't explain it in my own words.

I'm glad you understood my post because reading about the process, and how clay can ONLY become pottery AFTER it goes through the fire was very meaningful to me. Clay and potter do not have the same root word, but potter and pottery do, if you know what I mean! After he refines us and brings us to "maturity" (also mentioned in Wikipedia article), we are "hardened" and "permanently," "irreversibly" changed from clay to pottery.
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Old 06-09-2010, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,657,990 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
You don't think Hitler felt powerful? I am sure he felt mightily powerful, and for a while he was the most powerful MAN on the planet. But of course Hitler was only a man, and not God.

Where did I hear it? God says in his own words he raised Pharaoh and destroyed him only to show his power in the him. It defines the sovereignty of God and his own comment ""I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." and "Jacob I loved, and Esau I hated".
It really has little to do with how powerful Hitler felt. Murderers feel powerful too but that doesn't show their power. If you ask people if Hitler showed his power by killing people they would say that is no power at all. He was a monster as are serial killers (IMO Hitler was a serial killer).

The question was did that SHOW Hitler's power? I would say no.

Does God destroying people show God's power? I would say no.

Why? Because saving people from harm and destruction shows power and might.

In fact, saving Hitler would be the ultimate accomplishment of God's mercy and grace. Wouldn't you say?

The difference is one is a hero (God) and one is a common criminal (Hitler).

A hero doesn't kill people because they don't worship him. A hero saves the un-savable. IMO

BTW.... was Pharaoh destroyed? Seems to me he lived quite a while after God "destroyed" him....
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