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I am learning a lot about Universalism on this board. Thanks! Good to gain knowledge.
Anyway my question is: if everyone will be eventually be saved then why accept Jesus as savior? It would seem that the Uni view negates the need for Christ.
If I just live a good and moral life and give lip service to God I'm good to go. That is what I am hearing. Is that more or less what is being said by the Uni folk?
This seems to be contrary to what I read in the Bible.
The work of Calvary makes it all possible, yea definite.
The plan of God as I interpret it, is that a small group is filled with Him - the Bride will have all the authority, compassion, and life of her Husband, because they are of the same nature. But there's no short cut for her either, because she will have to be crucified as well.
This is where we are (or should be) now. Dying to self, and gaining Him.
If I just live a good and moral life and give lip service to God I'm good to go. .
Thats the way i'm doing it but my fundamentalist Christian co worker says its Not good enough, seems i have to repent and take Jesus as my savior and join and participate in church activities most Sundays.
I am learning a lot about Universalism on this board. Thanks! Good to gain knowledge.
Anyway my question is: if everyone will be eventually be saved then why accept Jesus as savior? It would seem that the Uni view negates the need for Christ.
If I just live a good and moral life and give lip service to God I'm good to go. That is what I am hearing. Is that more or less what is being said by the Uni folk?
This seems to be contrary to what I read in the Bible.
The bible doesn't say we have to accept Jesus as Savior. It says He IS the Savior of the world. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, not just a few. He died to save us from sin and death, not a literal lake of fire.
"The wages of sin are death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." John 17:3 says, "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." Some will "know Him" in this lifetime, and when you know Him you want to live by the Spirit and not sin against God. When you "know Him," you want to keep His commandments, and Jesus said the two greatest ones are to love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself.
So it's not about "accepting" Him, but about knowing Him, loving Him and others, and living for Him. When these things take place, we are filled with Him - His love, and we are saved from sin. His death on the cross conquered death and the grave, so we are ultimately also saved from death.
God put our hearts into our chests so that we could live, but just because we now have a heart, that doesn't mean the heart is no longer necessary. God gave us Jesus to give us life, but that certainly doesn't mean He's no longer necessary. Hope this helps!
I am learning a lot about Universalism on this board. Thanks! Good to gain knowledge.
Anyway my question is: if everyone will be eventually be saved then why accept Jesus as savior? It would seem that the Uni view negates the need for Christ.
If I just live a good and moral life and give lip service to God I'm good to go. That is what I am hearing. Is that more or less what is being said by the Uni folk?
This seems to be contrary to what I read in the Bible.
Salvation is really not about "accepting Jesus", as most ETer's might have you believe. Salvation is having eternal life. Eternal life is knowing God and Jesus whom He sent.
Joh 17:3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent.
"Accepting Jesus" is not a biblical concept, though it is often presented this way by evangelicals in the Church.
The scriptures teach that those born of the Spirit "receive Jesus", they receive the truth and knowledge that He loved them and died for them on the cross. When that truth is made known, eternal life springs forth like a well of good water. When you actually BELIEVE AND KNOW that God has loved you, and sent His Son Jesus to die for you (the Gospel) and that His own righteousness is freely imputed to those who KNOW this truth, that knowledge brings with it eternal life and the experience of salvation:
Joh 5:24 `Verily, verily, I say to you--He who is hearing my word, and is believing Him who sent me, hath life age-during, and to judgment he doth not come, but hath passed out of the death to the life.
A person without this knowledge does not experience or know eternal life or the working of the Holy Spirit within them. That's why it is God's desire that all be saved and COME TO THE FULL KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH.
1Ti 2:4 who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth;
A person cannot experience salvation without the knowledge of God's love for them. IN TIME, all will come to this knowledge, that Christ loved them and give himself as a ransom for them:
1Ti 2:6 who did give himself a ransom for all--the testimony in its own times--
However, a person IS NOT in a state of re-birth (regeneration) until this knowledge is made known by the Spirit. The knowledge of salvation is not like going to Vegas and putting your chips on black or red, hoping the spin will come up in your favor. It's about knowing the truth of the Gospel message (spiritually) and having a renewed heart that receives it. But not all have this knowledge NOW or the new heart (being born of the Spirit) than can receive it. But ALL WILL in time, as David and the other Psalmist's testify to:
Psa 66:4 All the earth do bow to Thee, They sing praise to Thee, they praise Thy name.' Selah.
Psa 67:2 For the knowledge in earth of Thy way, among all nations of Thy salvation.
Psa 86:9 All nations that Thou hast made Come and bow themselves before Thee, O Lord, And give honour to Thy name.
Psa 98:2 Jehovah hath made known His salvation, Before the eyes of the nations, He hath revealed His righteousness,
The TIMING of the new birth and it's revealing of salvation is the sole work and prerogative of the Holy Spirit as to whom, when and how:
Joh 3:8 the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.'
Anyway, that's how I see it. Actually, similar to BHFT, who posted right before I hit "submit"...lol...
Anyway my question is: if everyone will be eventually be saved then why accept Jesus as savior? It would seem that the Uni view negates the need for Christ.
It does negate God. If everyone is saved, then what do you still need Christ for?
Quote:
If I just live a good and moral life and give lip service to God I'm good to go. That is what I am hearing. Is that more or less what is being said by the Uni folk?
According to UR, you don't need to live a good and moral life or give lit service, because everyone is saved, including Hitler, Stalin, Ted Bundy etc...
Quote:
This seems to be contrary to what I read in the Bible.
It is contrary to what the Bible teaches. The Bible says one must be born again into the spirit and believe in Christ. There is a great parable about the "wedding" to which many were invited but only a few accepted the invitation. The ones who did not come were cast into the outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. The UR people completely disregard these verses, and they don't see that it is the very message the Bible teaches. Instead they cling to a handful verses which they think supports their view. The problem with cherry picking verses out of context, is that by doing that you could make the Bible say anything and support any point of view. However the message of salvation is repeated over and over in the Bible so there is no way anyone can twist it into something else unless they completely close their eyes to almost the entire Bible.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 05-21-2010 at 02:19 PM..
Not sure... no one came back from the dead yet to tell us!
URers position is that God saves all men because he desires them all to be saved... but the bible doesn't really address life after physical death IMO.
I am learning a lot about Universalism on this board. Thanks! Good to gain knowledge.
Anyway my question is: if everyone will be eventually be saved then why accept Jesus as savior? It would seem that the Uni view negates the need for Christ.
If I just live a good and moral life and give lip service to God I'm good to go. That is what I am hearing. Is that more or less what is being said by the Uni folk?
This seems to be contrary to what I read in the Bible.
Your spirit is leading you correctly with regard for needing Jesus. However, a moral life will not do it. You need to be born again.
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