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Old 05-23-2010, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,406,978 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Revelation 20:4 for starters? Did you miss that one?...and I saw souls psychē beheaded for the.....
So there is a problem here sciota... disembodied souls can't be beheaded... they don't have a head. He saw SOULS that were beheaded...Also... at the end of the verse it says they LIVE (quickened) and REIGN with Christ. How can you be beheaded and then LIVE?

Is this symbolism? The head is where the mind is.. a change of mind could be symbolized by beheading... don't ya think?

Ilene was beheaded and now Lives and Reigns with Christ... I have been beheaded.... and now I LIVE!

I don't know why people think the soul is a separate part of us when it is clear in Gen. that spirit + body = soul.

Also Strong's states: From psucho; breath, i.e. (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from pneuma, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from zoe, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew nephesh, ruwach and chay) -- heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.

So what exactly are you trying to say here? Psuche has nothing to do with disembodied souls as you are meaning... but then I thought you were better at exegeses than this!
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Old 05-23-2010, 12:03 PM
 
Location: US
26,391 posts, read 14,001,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
I've already done that in other posts and so have many others. I'm not going to keep quoting scripture when you're not going to see or listen anyway. I'll provide you with a link where you can research it for yourself.

The Christian Universalist Association ~ Christian Universalism

And fundamentalism is just that...fundamentalism.
It is obvious that you do not know what Fundamentalism is...and i have researched Ur...fully...And that is so typical of one that is trying to cover up their ignorance of a topic...'go research it yourself'....
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Old 05-23-2010, 12:08 PM
 
1,711 posts, read 1,567,355 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Here is scripture that says they were cast into the lake of fire, however it does not say that they will be there forever...i have spoken with Urs that state that even the devil and his angels will be saved because God says He will recononcile ALL to Himself...But, let's look on father in the Scripture...

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

So, this verse here dismantles that false theology altogether...


Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

So, the lake of Fire that burns forever and ever is a component of the Second death, and it also states that those not found written in the book of life are to experience the second death, and the second death is in the lake of fire that burns forever and ever....so, regarding these statements of Christ in Revelations it is obvious that either God is not going to reconcile the world to himself, in cluding the Devil and his angel and false prophet and beast...and that those not found written in the book of life are going to get what the afore mentioned are going to get...the second death...which is the lake of fire which burns forever and ever...
it is "into the ages of the ages" not "forever and ever"
  • Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death
Who is outside and city and in the LOF?
sorcerers
whoremongers
murderers
liars
  • Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Those who enter the city, enter through the gates. Obviously they enter from without the city, where they were among the

sorcerers
whoremogerers
murderers
liars

experiencing the LOF and second death.
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Old 05-23-2010, 12:08 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,296 posts, read 20,045,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
It is obvious that you do not know what Fundamentalism is...and i have researched Ur...fully...And that is so typical of one that is trying to cover up their ignorance of a topic...'go research it yourself'....
Fundamentalism is to love mercy and to do justly and walk humbly with your God , understanding all the correct doctrines and being opposed to all those who disagree with you to the point where you believe they are not fellow believers is not true fundermentalism but a very poor counterfeit of it.

"Woe to you teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices -- mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law -- justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel" (Matthew 23:23,24)
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Old 05-23-2010, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,406,978 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Well, if it is put back into context...The author is speaking to believers in Phillipi...And if taken out of context it still does not imply that everyone will confess willingly...Christ is still Lord over ALL creation, even over those that are in Hell and Hell itself...And that is all you have to back UR up...oh, well...
So only those believers a Phillipi will confess? Christ is Lord of ALL but yet he has no power over hell? LOL

He asked a question and you are evading the answer. In or out of context the verse states that ALL will confess. This cannot refer to only those at Phillipi because I confess that Jesus is Lord... and I don't reside in Philipi nor do I live in the 1st century.

It seems that ETers discount the bible in order to retain their hell...
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Old 05-23-2010, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,120,690 times
Reputation: 866
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Well, if it is put back into context...The author is speaking to believers in Phillipi...And if taken out of context it still does not imply that everyone will confess willingly...Christ is still Lord over ALL creation, even over those that are in Hell and Hell itself...And that is all you have to back UR up...oh, well...
Don't underestimate the power of God, brother!

Blessings,
brian
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Old 05-23-2010, 02:56 PM
 
Location: US
26,391 posts, read 14,001,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
This is the biggest problem the likes of yourself have .

It's not attempt to validate UR , i believed this before i ever heard of UR.

Creating a doctrine ???? , The love of God demonstrated to the world is not a doctrine , it only becomes a doctrine when you start believing there are those who are loved of God and those who are not.

The verse i quoted clearly tells us "our sins (the believer) and the sins of the world). So 1 John 2 verse 2 is not a doctrine it's the reality of God's love towards His creation.
you believed it because it is where people led you...come on, be honest with yourself...
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Old 05-23-2010, 02:59 PM
 
Location: US
26,391 posts, read 14,001,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
You say the lake of fire BURNS forever and ever when the verse states that the beast and prophet will be TORMENTED forever... not burned.

The word here for torment can mean vex or pain or torture.... which definition fits?
Regardless, the lake of fire burns, hence the word fire...but, still those there are seperated from God eternally...and even Christ said the Lake of fire burns forever...
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Old 05-23-2010, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,406,978 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Regardless, the lake of fire burns, hence the word fire...but, still those there are seperated from God eternally...and even Christ said the Lake of fire burns forever...
Christ said that? Can you show me where.

And where does it say they are separated from God eternally?

The lake of fire is from Rev. which is full of symbols. Does that mean the lake of fire really burns?

Revelation 9:17 And this is how I saw in the vision the horses and those who sat on them: the riders had breastplates the color of fire and of hyacinth and of brimstone; and the heads of the horses are like the heads of lions; and out of their mouths proceed fire and smoke and brimstone.

Does the fire burn their mouths? Do they really have heads of lions on horses bodies?

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Old 05-23-2010, 03:05 PM
 
Location: US
26,391 posts, read 14,001,542 times
Reputation: 1602
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
Right. That is what I believe.



I'm not one of them or in agreement with them. They probably call themselves "Christian" too, but that doesn't make you one of them or in agreement with them does it?
Not at all...i am just pointing out that there is a group of folks that also twist scripture and plays semantic with scripture in order to make scripture support their beliefs and life styles...i read and research the whole website...i see where they give definitions of the Greek and Hebrew and only give half the definition so it fits their theology that God is ok with their life style so long as it is monogamous and other things as such...
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