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Old 05-23-2010, 06:54 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,771,861 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
He was not beheaded for one...and i think that you misunderstand the physics of the glorified body...Obviously Thomas did not recognize Him, until what?...And again, where is scriptural support for what you say?...you are going outside scripture with undo speculation...And i have read the books and heard the Preachers say what you have said...so, i know where you get it from...
So what Richard? This is the most stupid conversation ever. Even if he had been beheaded he would have still been resurrected with his head!! Good grief. Are people who are cremated just out of luck? Are people born without limbs or lost limbs just going to be limbless for eternity? Of course not. You don't have very much faith in the power of God. The scriptural support is in Christ's resurrection and the fact that HE WAS RECOGNIZED. I "get it" from that!!
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Old 05-23-2010, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,644,317 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
There you go, verse 11 points back to verse 10...He is talking to believers regarding believers when He says every tongue shall confess...He is using that quote in reference to believers...
So your contradicting Sciotamicks who said it was a referece to Israelites - but your saying it is to believers. So tell me now since you believe it is to believers then why would they be "under the earth"?
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Old 05-23-2010, 07:03 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,390,774 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
So what Richard? This is the most stupid conversation ever. Even if he had been beheaded he would have still been resurrected with his head!! Good grief. Are people who are cremated just out of luck? Are people born without limbs or lost limbs just going to be limbless for eternity? Of course not. You don't have very much faith in the power of God. The scriptural support is in Christ's resurrection and the fact that HE WAS RECOGNIZED. I "get it" from that!!
Lol.
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Old 05-23-2010, 08:57 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,725,637 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
BHFT: The main reason I say that is because that's how I was. I had relatives who died over the years that I was supposedly believing that, and I just figured they were "probably" ok. That's how everyone is that I know.


BHFT's next post:
You must have misunderstood my point. I meant that I used to think they were "probably" ok and didn't worry about it. That is the opposite of looking for UR. I didn't really think of it as something I should be giving a lot of thought. I was not fully comprehending the horror of ET. When God revealed the truth of UR to me, it was after I somewhat began to comprehend the horror while thinking about total strangers (like we're supposed to do - love your neighbor as yourself). It had nothing to do with relatives when I cried out to God and asked Him why He would burn people forever, and asked Him why He didn't have a way to save them. He answered in my heart loud and clear, that He was going to do no such thing.

You are professing with your lips that you believe people are going to be set on fire forever (maybe they are even burning right at this minute), but yet you aren't urgently warning every single person you meet that doesn't believe in Jesus. (Please don't give me the comeback that you're doing that right now by telling people who believe God is willing and able to save all through the shed blood of Jesus.)

If you really believe most of the people around you are going to hell, you should get off your computer and go warn everyone you come into contact with. Oh yeah...the bible doesn't tell us to do that, does it? I wonder why. Do you think God doesn't want us to warn people because He wants to burn as many as possible? Or maybe He doesn't want us to be embarrassed and look foolish warning all those people. Is that it? Or maybe He just forgot to put that part in the bible.

If hell is a literal lake of fire and you have to accept Jesus for Him to have the power to save you, the bible should have a verse that says, "Go into all the world and warn them to accept me or burn forever." Instead, it's says to go into all the world and preach the good news - also called the good news of YOUR salvation. According to your beliefs, how can you tell someone of the good news of their own salvation before they accept Him? Also, you say you're a Calvinist so there's really no need to preach anything if He has already decided who He'll keep and who He'll throw away.

ETers either don't, in the depths of their hearts, believe in a literal lake of fire, are "brainwashed," or their hearts are so hardened that they don't care if anyone other than themselves and a few loved ones burn. That's the simple truth. Otherwise, they wouldn't have time for anything else in life other than to warn people because NOTHING ELSE WOULD MATTER!

As for me, I think when I believed in ET I was a little brainwashed. I'm not sure if that's the right word, but it is pretty much the same thing as when I believed in Santa Claus. I believed it because that is what I was told and I just accepted it on "faith" that I was being told the truth. Once I found out, I could think back and wonder how I could have believed that when it didn't make any sense. Just a side note: Anyone ever notice how the fable of Santa teaches that if you're good and believe in Santa you'll get good gifts, but if you're bad or don't believe you'll get nothing or a lump of coal? Funny how loving parents give good gifts to their child even if they had a lot of bad behavior that year, and keep giving gifts after they stop believing in Santa. I think that's called unconditional love.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
I understand your troubles and questions. We all ask those questions one time or another. However, as I have said, and many others time and time again, the scriptures DO NOT TEACH A DISEMBODIED SOUL CAN ACCEPT CHRIST and Be SAVED.

I can't really say if God answered you or not, but IMO, God did not tell you, "Hey, you deny my Son, don't worry, you won't be burn forever for it."

That, is again, a fairy tale made up from the heart and desires of man.
It is not from the scriptures.

I don't believe in corporate visions, unfulfilled prophecy, or any unfinished work. I believe in the continuation of the gifts of the Spirit. I believe in modern miracles, healings, or gifts of the Spirit.

I believe God finished it all in Christ, and being in Him, means believing in Him, and it takes just that, to be a new creation, a new man, a regenerate with eternal life.
I'm a little confused about your response to my post because:

1. I didn't say anything about having "troubles."

2. I didn't say anything about "disembodied souls."

3. I didn't say anything about corporate visions, unfulfilled prophecy, unfinished work, gifts of the Spirit, modern miracles, healings, or gifts of the Spirit.



I did say a lot, and asked you several questions that you didn't answer. I would appreciate it if you would read my post again and address the points I did make.

If you really do believe that "God finished it all in Christ," then why don't you believe all were saved when Jesus said, "It is finished?" The problem is that you say you believe God finished it because you know Jesus said He did, but you don't really believe that. You believe a person is the one who really has to finish it. Oh - I just remembered that you're a Calvinist, so maybe you do believe it's finished because God already decided who to reward and who to burn. Again, if you believe that, why bother sharing God with anyone if it's already been determined who's chosen?

About "disembodied souls," I believe everyone was already saved when Jesus died on the cross, not that they will be saved in the future. They will accept him by sight, not faith, like Saul/Paul and Thomas. Just because all are saved doesn't mean they will not be justly punished and corrected until they are made right with Christ.

Regarding your comment that God didn't say, "Hey, you deny my Son, don't worry, you won't be burn forever for it." When the Holy Spirit originally revealed it to my heart, there was no mention of denying Christ, it was more along the lines of, "There's nothing you can do to help save people. I have it taken care of all by myself. I am Love. I am merciful, and nothing about Me or My character is willing or even capable of burning people forever." (I'm sure you realize it wasn't spoken words.)

Last edited by Bright Hope for Tomorrow; 05-23-2010 at 09:06 PM..
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Old 05-23-2010, 09:24 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,725,637 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
The Tradition of Santa Claus is that if you are naughty you get coal in your stocking....wow, you guys are even twisting and adding to myths to suit your own needs...
Good grief! It was an analogy. OK?
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Old 05-23-2010, 09:36 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,413,898 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
I'm a little confused about your response to my post because:

1. I didn't say anything about having "troubles."

2. I didn't say anything about "disembodied souls."

3. I didn't say anything about corporate visions, unfulfilled prophecy, unfinished work, gifts of the Spirit, modern miracles, healings, or gifts of the Spirit.



I did say a lot, and asked you several questions that you didn't answer. I would appreciate it if you would read my post again and address the points I did make.

If you really do believe that "God finished it all in Christ," then why don't you believe all were saved when Jesus said, "It is finished?" The problem is that you say you believe God finished it because you know Jesus said He did, but you don't really believe that. You believe a person is the one who really has to finish it. Oh - I just remembered that you're a Calvinist, so maybe you do believe it's finished because God already decided who to reward and who to burn. Again, if you believe that, why bother sharing God with anyone if it's already been determined who's chosen?

About "disembodied souls," I believe everyone was already saved when Jesus died on the cross, not that they will be saved in the future. They will accept him by sight, not faith, like Saul/Paul and Thomas. Just because all are saved doesn't mean they will not be justly punished and corrected until they are made right with Christ.

Regarding your comment that God didn't say, "Hey, you deny my Son, don't worry, you won't be burn forever for it." When the Holy Spirit originally revealed it to my heart, there was no mention of denying Christ, it was more along the lines of, "There's nothing you can do to help save people. I have it taken care of all by myself. I am Love. I am merciful, and nothing about Me or My character is willing or even capable of burning people forever." (I'm sure you realize it wasn't spoken words.)
I especially like that bold part!
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Old 05-23-2010, 09:43 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,725,637 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
The point is you cannot use a metyphor like Santa Claus to teach a UR belief when that is not the traditional belief...the tradition states that if one is naughty one gets coal from Santa Claus...You are changing the metyphor to suit your needs...One might as well ask, even though the scripture states ET, do i know of one person that received Eternal Hell...no, i do not, but i believe what scripture teaches regarding it...and i believe the tradition of Santa Claus as it was originally presented so long ago...and that is if a child is naughty they receive coal in there stocking, not toys...we all know that Santa Claus is not real even though it is based off of an actual person called Saint Nicholas, it is just the myth and it's regulations grew up around the actual events of a real person...we know it is parents that buy the toys for their kids, and not Santa Claus, regardless of whether they're good or bad, the fact of the myth states that if you are good you get toyse but if you are bad you get coal...the point here is the bible is not a myth built up around a real God...it is a real story built up around a real God...
I guess I need to explain my Santa Claus analogy better. As you said, the tradition of Santa states that if one is naughty one gets coal from Santa. That is a lie, right? Some mean parents might do that, but I've never known of one, so let's just stick with most situations for the analogy. The threat that Santa is mean to you if you're bad is a lie. Just like the myth that God will burn people for eternity - a lie! That was my point.
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Old 05-23-2010, 09:53 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,725,637 times
Reputation: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
...and we are commanded to love our enemy, to bless those who curse you and pray for those that despitefully use you...
So, do you believe God's motto is "Do as I say, not as I do?" Why did He command us to love our enemy and bless those who curse us, if He plans to BURN FOR ETERNITY His enemies and those who curse Him? Do you have an answer for that?

Your other post said...."creating god in their own image instead of themselves in Gods image." According to your ET beliefs, to create ourselves in God's image, we would have to set people on fire who don't love us.
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Old 05-23-2010, 10:04 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,725,637 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
If you are attempting to make the statement mean that He died once for everyone, then you are wrong, that is not what it is implying...
I believe to say Christ did NOT die for everyone is slander against God.
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Old 05-23-2010, 10:10 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,725,637 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Regardless, the lake of fire burns, hence the word fire...but, still those there are seperated from God eternally...and even Christ said the Lake of fire burns forever...
Were you baptized with fire? Hmmm.. I didn't think so - not yet anyway! Can you tell me why ETers think the fire in that verse, and the one that says everyone will be salted with fire is symbolic, but believe the lake of fire is literal, even though they don't think they'll really worship a baby sheep?
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