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Old 05-22-2010, 05:52 PM
 
3,576 posts, read 451,983 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
Umm, she actually used a personal curse towards Scitoamicks (having to do with incest or being violated, I susupect) that was filtered out and cursed "his" God. IMO some people are going off the deep end over UR.



I am new to this concept and judging by its fruits it is of Satan. It is sowing hatred and strife. If it were of God, those espousing UR would not be cursing God or using profanity.
It seems to me that strife and hatred do not come from the doctrine they come from the heart --- that is what Jesus told us.

I believe it is unfair to judge the whole by looking at one of the members --- If someone is a baptist and they are a murderer - does that mean all baptists are murderers? No

There have been some harsh things said by some on both sides of this debate and other debates.

There has been bad fruit from a lot of christians who believed in eternal torment through the ages......

We are all human and we are all born sinners and we all have done things that are not edifying and loving. It is a process to overcome evil with good and it is hard for the human nature to be crucified.........
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Old 05-22-2010, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,284,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Christ never commanded us to be born again in this life, he told us that we must be born again, but never stipulated when ...
Yes He did....so did Paul, Peter...John and so forth.
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Old 05-22-2010, 06:02 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
I agree with you, Christ never commanded one to be born again...He merely stated that unless a man is born from above, he is unable to see the reign of God....
Keyword......man.
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Old 05-22-2010, 06:02 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,626,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Rom. 8:1 "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit." But to have the Spirit Jesus says one must be born again spiritually. 2 Cor. 1:21-22 "Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee." Paul said prior to this in 1 Cor.1:18 "the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing" and then makes the application "but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." There is saved and unsaved and the believing in the crucifixion makes all the difference instaed of the death of Christ making universalism possible this make universalism a complete impossibility.

The two strongest passages from Paul that are used for universalism are 1 Cor. 15:21-28 and Eph. 1:10, yet one must twist all his other statements to prove Paul held the doctrine of universal salvation. An unbiased study of the passages clearly shows this is not the apostle's intent. Cor. 15: 21-28, we have first the statement--"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive" (ver. 22). Paul affirms that in Christ all shall be made alive not all shall be made alive outside Christ as a general promise.

The point is how does on get in Christ?

The Bible tells us in 1 Corinthians 15:22 "as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive" All who are descended from Adam die. So in Christ all shall be made alive. This verse has been taken to teach universal salvation. It is argued that the same ones who die in Adam will be made alive in Christ, and that all will eventually be saved. But that is not what the verse says. The key phrases are in Adam and in Christ. All who are in Adam die-- these are those who are born once in a physical body. All who are in Christ shall be made alive, these are those who were born spiritually. Only believers are in the Lord Jesus Christ, they only will be raised from the dead to dwell eternally with Him.

2 Cor. 5:17 "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new."

Col. 1:28 "Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus." What's the sense of warning if everyone is ok? No sense preaching Jesus.

Gal. 2:16 "knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified." Doing good to others will not get you to heaven at all, only Jesus will.

Rom. 3:21-24 "But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus"

2 Tim 1:9 "who has saved us (through faith-not by osmosis) and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began" you find your purpose from being in Christ.

Eph 2:10 "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them." One must have the faith to do these good works so that they are in Christ as the previous verses state.

So any other scripture that has promises in Christ Jesus has to be defined by this "As you have given Him [Jesus] authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as you have given Him" (John 17:2). Jesus said "as many," not "all" He gives eternal life to. The Gospel of Inclusion makes this a voided statement as it does other statements Jesus preached on the sheep and the goats (Matthew 25:31-46); the gate is narrow not wide (Matthew 7:13-14), it's not an 8 lane highway.

Contrary to Pearson and other universalists opinions, Paul did not teach universalism. Phil. 3:8-9 "Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith." You cannot be IN Christ by another religion. Christianity teaches the opposite of trying to be accepted by God by your own works. Paul taught against this even though he practiced Judaism more zealously than anyone of his time.

Again one must believe in the gospel to receive anything from Christ. Mark 16:16 "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."

Acts 16:31 So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household." Over 240 times the Scripture command to believe and exercise faith on Christ for salvation.

Nothing could be clearer to refute universalism. There are too many qualifying scriptures that abolish a universal view. For it was Jesus who said, "except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3).

When you are dead, you are not a man, but a soul clothed with either an incorruptible body, or your without a body entirely.
A MAN must be born again.

I Jn. 5:12-13 "He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God."

The Influence of Universalism on Society and the Church 1

More at link.
Should we believe YOU - the preacher of Failure - where Jesus fails to eradicate sin and God cannot fulufill His desires to save all or should we believe God - who plainly tells us that He shall be ALL in ALL and shall have every Tongue Confess that Jesus is the Lord?

You can attack us but in the end you will be sitting in our presence along with the rest of God's Children. So I bring you hope and blessing while you curse the very Gospel that I preach. I pray God gives you a new heart that you can comprehend the error that you have spoken.
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Old 05-22-2010, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,284,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post
These comments definitely reveal who has the fruit of the Spirit. Notice the ones who reached out with compassion and the ones who were sarcastic and rude. Phazelwood was hurting when recalling a tough childhood, and all you can offer is condemnation for a little acronym? Phazelwood, I'm truly sorry that you had to endure that, and I pray for your peace and a healed relationship with your parents.
We all have troubles. Does not excuse the use of profanity on a Christian forum.

Quote:
The main reason I say that is because that's how I was. I had relatives who died over the years that I was supposedly believing that, and I just figured they were "probably" ok. That's how everyone is that I know.
Most Universalists become such because of this above quote.
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Old 05-22-2010, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,284,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Should we believe YOU - the preacher of Failure - where Jesus fails to eradicate sin and God cannot fulufill His desires to save all or should we believe God -
God never said He was to eradicate sin for all of creation. Just for those in Him, who are the new creation.

Quote:
who plainly tells us that He shall be ALL in ALL and shall have every Tongue Confess that Jesus is the Lord?
He already is...in the church...His new creation.

Quote:
You can attack us but in the end you will be sitting in our presence along with the rest of God's Children. So I bring you hope and blessing while you curse the very Gospel that I preach. I pray God gives you a new heart that you can comprehend the error that you have spoken.
More rhetoric.
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Old 05-22-2010, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,626,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
God never said He was to eradicate sin for all of creation. Just for those in Him, who are the new creation.
So that is your way of saying that God will NOT eradicate sin. I get it. I just want others to see it this clearly.


Quote:
He already is...in the church...His new creation.



More rhetoric.
So when God says that He is All in ALL you believe that is only referring to the Church. So "ALL in ALL" in the scriptures to you is just a reference to the Church, correct?
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Old 05-22-2010, 06:25 PM
 
1,711 posts, read 1,564,185 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Keyword......man.
The keyword "man" is not even in the verse. The word is "one". Anyway, the dwelling of God shall be with men so men do not cease to be men in the resurrection.
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Old 05-22-2010, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,383,615 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
We all have troubles. Does not excuse the use of profanity on a Christian forum.
Hmmmm.... have you ever played the game Dirty Minds? It is a game where a phrase is said and you have to figure out what it means (or something like that) however they are worded innocently enough yet if you have a dirty mind....well it is a funny game for ADULTS! I think I am adult enough to handle two letters and a bunch or stars in a row.... aren't you? What you should get from that is the passion with which the post was written. The trauma I have suffered while being told I was being saved from hell is devastating and I often feel cheated for having had to hear I was going to hell throughout my growing years. The doctrine of Eternal Torment is simply a method of bondage.

Tell me, what use is hell? Why does God have it. And I don't mean to burn sinners but why then burn sinners. I want to know what good comes from sinners burning? How does that reflect positively on God?
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Old 05-22-2010, 06:37 PM
 
1,711 posts, read 1,564,185 times
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Quote:
Again one must believe in the gospel to receive anything from Christ....Nothing could be clearer to refute universalism.
No, because most universalists already believe that one must believe the gospel and be born again.
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