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Old 05-22-2010, 06:38 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,381,502 times
Reputation: 437

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
Umm, she actually used a personal curse towards Scitoamicks (having to do with incest or being violated, I susupect) that was filtered out and cursed "his" God. IMO some people are going off the deep end over UR.



I am new to this concept and judging by its fruits it is of Satan. It is sowing hatred and strife. If it were of God, those espousing UR would not be cursing God or using profanity.
Hi Mr5150,

If I were to judge Christianity by it's fruits in the past, I would most
definitely not be Christian.

We all make mistakes. Every single last one of us.
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Old 05-22-2010, 06:42 PM
 
5,738 posts, read 4,583,643 times
Reputation: 4160
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
We all have troubles. Does not excuse the use of profanity on a Christian forum.

Hmmm. Not really sure what is more profane than people spouting the profane notion that our Father will torture most of the beings He created for all eternity..

Don't even go there sciotamicks.
The horrendous things that are attributed to God on this forum by those who believe in eternal torment are the MOST profane things the carnal mind could ever possibly imagine.
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Old 05-22-2010, 06:53 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,381,502 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post
Hmmm. Not really sure what is more profane than people spouting the profane notion that our Father will torture most of the beings He created for all eternity..

Don't even go there sciotamicks.
The horrendous things that are attributed to God on this forum by those who believe in eternal torment are the MOST profane things the carnal mind could ever possibly imagine.


Tried to rep you, sparrow. LOVE does not set humans on fire forever, unless........nah.
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Old 05-22-2010, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,287,428 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
The keyword "man" is not even in the verse. The word is "one". Anyway, the dwelling of God shall be with men so men do not cease to be men in the resurrection.
So what? The context is what? You have a very weak arguement there.
Is a disembodied soul and someone? Is a dead man without his body...a someone? You are imposing again this paradigm against the scriptures and the neccesity of faith for salvation...preserverance....living righteous....etc.....ytou guys will do anything won't you to discredit what is staring you right in the face! Shall I bring forward each and every verse again that declares man must profess their faith in Christ in order to be saved? Shall I...once again show your theology is false?

John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man (anthropos) be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Here are some others to help you along:

Gal 4:6 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Except a man (Any one that partakes of the human nature, and consequently of its corruptions) be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God, the kingdom of the Messiah begun in grace and perfected in glory. Except we be born from above, we cannot see this. That is, First, We cannot understand the nature of it. Such is the nature of things pertaining to the kingdom of God (in which Nicodemus desired to be instructed) that the soul must be re-modelled and moulded, the natural man must become a spiritual man, before he is capable of receiving and understanding them, 1 Co. 2:14.

Regeneration is absolutely necessary to our happiness here and hereafter. Considering what we are by nature, how corrupt and sinful,—what God is, in whom alone we can be happy,—and what heaven is, to which the perfection of our happiness is reserved, it will appear, in the nature of the thing, that we must be born again, because it is impossible that we should be happy if we be not holy.

1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Isa 44:3 For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:

Not all seeds.
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Old 05-22-2010, 07:14 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,287,428 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Tried to rep you, sparrow. LOVE does not set humans on fire forever, unless........nah.
No wrath does.
A man does not accept God's offering and sacrifice, it's like socking Him in the nose.
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Old 05-22-2010, 07:35 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,381,502 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
No wrath does.
A man does not accept God's offering and sacrifice, it's like socking Him in the nose.
God is not human. His "wrath" is not human.
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Old 05-22-2010, 08:07 PM
 
1,711 posts, read 1,564,897 times
Reputation: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
So what? The context is what? You have a very weak arguement there.
My "argument" was just a statement two facts
1) the word "man" which is the "keyword" according to you and the OP is not even in the text.
2) God's dwelling will be with men so men continue to be men in the resurrection

Quote:
Is a disembodied soul and someone? Is a dead man without his body...a someone?
We're not talking about dead men. We're talking about resurrected men. That makes them alive, not dead. And that also makes them someone.

Quote:
You are imposing again this paradigm against the scriptures and the neccesity of faith for salvation...preserverance....living righteous....etc.....ytou guys will do anything won't you to discredit what is staring you right in the face! Shall I bring forward each and every verse again that declares man must profess their faith in Christ in order to be saved? Shall I...once again show your theology is false?

John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man (anthropos) be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?


So I should draw my theology from Nicodemus who took what Christ said utterly physically!?? He was so spot on about re-entering the womb, that I should read all kinds of stuff into his use of the word anthropos?

Quote:
Here are some others to help you along:

Gal 4:6 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Except a man (Any one that partakes of the human nature, and consequently of its corruptions) be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God, the kingdom of the Messiah begun in grace and perfected in glory. Except we be born from above, we cannot see this. That is, First, We cannot understand the nature of it. Such is the nature of things pertaining to the kingdom of God (in which Nicodemus desired to be instructed) that the soul must be re-modelled and moulded, the natural man must become a spiritual man, before he is capable of receiving and understanding them, 1 Co. 2:14.

Regeneration is absolutely necessary to our happiness here and hereafter. Considering what we are by nature, how corrupt and sinful,—what God is, in whom alone we can be happy,—and what heaven is, to which the perfection of our happiness is reserved, it will appear, in the nature of the thing, that we must be born again, because it is impossible that we should be happy if we be not holy.

1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

[quote[Isa 44:3 For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring: Not all seeds.
Right, God's blessing is upon only His seed. That's why I already beleive that
a) one must have faith in Christ to be saved
b) one must be born again of His Spirit to be saved
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Old 05-22-2010, 09:27 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,721,380 times
Reputation: 263
BHFT: The main reason I say that is because that's how I was. I had relatives who died over the years that I was supposedly believing that, and I just figured they were "probably" ok. That's how everyone is that I know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Most Universalists become such because of this above quote.
You must have misunderstood my point. I meant that I used to think they were "probably" ok and didn't worry about it. That is the opposite of looking for UR. I didn't really think of it as something I should be giving a lot of thought. I was not fully comprehending the horror of ET. When God revealed the truth of UR to me, it was after I somewhat began to comprehend the horror while thinking about total strangers (like we're supposed to do - love your neighbor as yourself). It had nothing to do with relatives when I cried out to God and asked Him why He would burn people forever, and asked Him why He didn't have a way to save them. He answered in my heart loud and clear, that He was going to do no such thing.

You are professing with your lips that you believe people are going to be set on fire forever (maybe they are even burning right at this minute), but yet you aren't urgently warning every single person you meet that doesn't believe in Jesus. (Please don't give me the comeback that you're doing that right now by telling people who believe God is willing and able to save all through the shed blood of Jesus.)

If you really believe most of the people around you are going to hell, you should get off your computer and go warn everyone you come into contact with. Oh yeah...the bible doesn't tell us to do that, does it? I wonder why. Do you think God doesn't want us to warn people because He wants to burn as many as possible? Or maybe He doesn't want us to be embarrassed and look foolish warning all those people. Is that it? Or maybe He just forgot to put that part in the bible.

If hell is a literal lake of fire and you have to accept Jesus for Him to have the power to save you, the bible should have a verse that says, "Go into all the world and warn them to accept me or burn forever." Instead, it's says to go into all the world and preach the good news - also called the good news of YOUR salvation. According to your beliefs, how can you tell someone of the good news of their own salvation before they accept Him? Also, you say you're a Calvinist so there's really no need to preach anything if He has already decided who He'll keep and who He'll throw away.

ETers either don't, in the depths of their hearts, believe in a literal lake of fire, are "brainwashed," or their hearts are so hardened that they don't care if anyone other than themselves and a few loved ones burn. That's the simple truth. Otherwise, they wouldn't have time for anything else in life other than to warn people because NOTHING ELSE WOULD MATTER!

As for me, I think when I believed in ET I was a little brainwashed. I'm not sure if that's the right word, but it is pretty much the same thing as when I believed in Santa Claus. I believed it because that is what I was told and I just accepted it on "faith" that I was being told the truth. Once I found out, I could think back and wonder how I could have believed that when it didn't make any sense. Just a side note: Anyone ever notice how the fable of Santa teaches that if you're good and believe in Santa you'll get good gifts, but if you're bad or don't believe you'll get nothing or a lump of coal? Funny how loving parents give good gifts to their child even if they had a lot of bad behavior that year, and keep giving gifts after they stop believing in Santa. I think that's called unconditional love.
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Old 05-22-2010, 10:07 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,287,428 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
No, because most universalists already believe that one must believe the gospel and be born again.
That isn't the argument. The arguement is that one cannot accept Christ after they have died physically. That is a fairy tale.
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Old 05-22-2010, 10:09 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,287,428 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
My "argument" was just a statement two facts
1) the word "man" which is the "keyword" according to you and the OP is not even in the text.
2) God's dwelling will be with men so men continue to be men in the resurrection

We're not talking about dead men. We're talking about resurrected men. That makes them alive, not dead. And that also makes them someone.

[/i]

So I should draw my theology from Nicodemus who took what Christ said utterly physically!?? He was so spot on about re-entering the womb, that I should read all kinds of stuff into his use of the word anthropos?



Right, God's blessing is upon only His seed. That's why I already beleive that
a) one must have faith in Christ to be saved
b) one must be born again of His Spirit to be saved
Again...I have asked you this before...why are we debating?
You seem to believe everything a Christian does, but DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE SCRIPTURES TEACH THE DISEMBODIED SOUL CAN ACCEPT CHRIST and BE SAVED? That is the meat of the debate with UR.
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