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Old 05-30-2010, 04:35 AM
 
9,538 posts, read 4,946,567 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Hi Latte Chic

Can someone be condemned and worse still be condemned to eternal torment for being in ignorance (Acts 17 verse 30) .

You asked for a scripture , what i will say is this , throughout scripture it testify's that God is just(there's the scripture you asked for) , do you really think it would be consistent of His just character to condemn those who had never heard ?.
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Old 05-30-2010, 04:37 AM
 
Location: RI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latte'Chic View Post
What ?
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Old 05-30-2010, 05:54 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
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Originally Posted by Latte'Chic View Post
NO.... not until you show me where does it says this in the Scripture, "those that we know never heard of Jesus so they never had a chance to be saved from the eternal hell"
That is the question Atheists and sceptics always ask followers of Christ.

Never heard of Jesus? Well, " For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion." (Romans 9:15)"


And some will hear the truth, but their hearts are hardened and they simply cannot believe it.

2nd Thessalonians 2:12 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they ALL might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."


those who have heard and reject the truth, will be punished more severely that those who never knew the truth:

"And that slave who knew his master's will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, shall receive many lashes, but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. And from everyone who has been given much shall much be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more." (Luke 12:47-48)


so some, like Indians in the Amazon never heard of the Gospel are judged by the law written in their hearts. They have good people and bad people among them, and the good obey the God given conscience, while the bad reject it. The conscience it the law written in their hearts.

Romans 2:14-16 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.


Because

Romans 4:15 for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, neither is there violation


So, Americans and Europeans who have heard of the truth, but have rejected it, are worse off than those who never heard of it. There is no universal salvation out there, so if you hear the knocking, you better open the door.

The Atheists and sceptics will have no excuse, because they heard the truth and willingly rejected it:

Romans 1:18:20 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 05-30-2010 at 06:03 AM..
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Old 05-30-2010, 06:28 AM
 
Location: RI
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14 David said to Gad, "I am in deep distress. Let us fall into the hands of the LORD, for his mercy is great; but do not let me fall into the hands of men." 2 Samuel 24.

Oh that those who militantly and evangelically promote Eternal torment could see God as David saw Him , and thank God we do not fall into to the same hands of those who militantly and evangelically promote eternal torment.

It's these same militant evangelical promoters that are condemning the unbeliever and those who do not agree with their doctrines to eternal torment and not God Himself , all on the basis "i believe what the bible says"

If you could only take a step back and see and hear what you are saying , even if ET was true (which it isn't) , it's spoken of and taught in the same spirit that James and John were of when they wanted to call fire down from heaven to consume those who rejected Jesus in that samaritan village.

Last edited by pcamps; 05-30-2010 at 06:56 AM..
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Old 05-30-2010, 07:29 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
14 David said to Gad, "I am in deep distress. Let us fall into the hands of the LORD, for his mercy is great; but do not let me fall into the hands of men." 2 Samuel 24.

Oh that those who militantly and evangelically promote Eternal torment could see God as David saw Him , and thank God we do not fall into to the same hands of those who militantly and evangelically promote eternal torment.

It's these same militant evangelical promoters that are condemning the unbeliever and those who do not agree with their doctrines to eternal torment and not God Himself , all on the basis "i believe what the bible says"

If you could only take a step back and see and hear what you are saying , even if ET was true (which it isn't) , it's spoken of and taught in the same spirit that James and John were of when they wanted to call fire down from heaven to consume those who rejected Jesus in that samaritan village.
David said "but do not let me fall into the hands of men" when God made him choose from three punishments against Israel (famine, war or plague). He did not want to fall in the hands of the enemy troops so he chose plague instead. God sent the plague and it killed 70 000 Israelis, but not David (who was the one who violated God's will).

Wow! Talk about presenting verses out of context.
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Old 05-30-2010, 07:35 AM
 
Location: RI
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Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
David said "but do not let me fall into the hands of men" when God made him choose from three punishments against Israel (famine, war or plague). He did not want to fall in the hands of the enemy troops so he chose plague instead. God sent the plague and it killed 70 000 Israelis, but not David (who was the one who violated God's will).

Wow! Talk about presenting verses out of context.
It's funny how you left out the part of the verse about mercy that i quoted .

You are totally missing the point of what David is saying, God is merciful man isn't , and it seems plain as daylight neither is the christian who is brainwashed by the doctrine of orthodox christianity.

Just using an example for instance from your 2nd to last post

"So, Americans and Europeans who have heard of the truth, but have rejected it, are worse off than those who never heard of it. There is no universal salvation out there, so if you hear the knocking, you better open the door".

There is no opening doors , finding narrow gates , seeking God , finding God , choosing God out there as well.Please do me a favor and do not quote me Rev 3 verse 20

He opens doors , He leads us to the narrow gate He seeks us , He finds us, He chooses us

The fact of the matter is war starts in the heart of man and quite often through vengeance , those who believe in ET believe in vengeance , those who don't do not believe in vengeance , so i lean towards believing the title of the post to this thread.

Last edited by pcamps; 05-30-2010 at 07:51 AM..
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Old 05-30-2010, 08:31 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
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Originally Posted by Latte'Chic View Post
Naive...... so faith is a naive thing now...
Is that honestly what you thought I was saying? I think you're too bright a woman to have made that mistake.

Quote:
Well my belief is that God will reveal Himself to all men because the written word of God does teaches this !!!
So do I, but the written word of God doesn't say when this is going to happen, now does it?

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Old 05-30-2010, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
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Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
It's funny how you left out the part of the verse about mercy that i quoted .
Yep, he showed his mercy by killing only 70 000 people instead all of them, like he did with the flood.



Quote:
There is no opening doors , finding narrow gates , seeking God , finding God , choosing God out there as well.Please do me a favor and do not quote me Rev 3 verse 20
According to the Bible there is, and the Bible says you should open the doo when you hear the knocking, and that you need to strive to enter throught the narrow gate.

It is not complicated.

Luke 13:23-24 And one said unto him, Lord, are they few that are saved? And he said unto them, Strive to enter in by the narrow door: for many, I say unto you, shall seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
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Old 05-30-2010, 12:03 PM
 
Location: RI
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Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Yep, he showed his mercy by killing only 70 000 people instead all of them, like he did with the flood.





According to the Bible there is, and the Bible says you should open the doo when you hear the knocking, and that you need to strive to enter throught the narrow gate.

It is not complicated.

Luke 13:23-24 And one said unto him, Lord, are they few that are saved? And he said unto them, Strive to enter in by the narrow door: for many, I say unto you, shall seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
There is one major flaw in your finding salvation belief and it's missing the important part of salvation ,"God Himself."

You see orthodoxy teaches that there are some that find God and some that don't (It's an insult to the gospel to believe such a thing)

It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, "Who then can be saved?"
Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God." Mark 10.Judging by the disciples response salvation from man's side is impossible and that includes his attempts to seek and find him which are futile. Be truthful with yourself did you find God or did He make Himself known to you .

You see the impossible(Salvation) is possible because of God.

You see the brainwashed belief of orthodox christianity has we know it stinks to high heaven of pride, it boasts in seeking , finding and choosing God , when the scriptures teaches the opposite. .

The narrow gate is just as impossible to find has the camel passing through the eye of the needle is, because the scripture emphatically teaches there is none that seeketh after God .


Again i agree with OP because it's founded in humility and not in the pride of orthodox christianity which has gone to war to defend what it believes and convert the nations it has fought .

Last edited by pcamps; 05-30-2010 at 12:46 PM..
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Old 05-30-2010, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
33,436 posts, read 10,894,015 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
You see the impossible(Salvation) is possible because of God.

You see the brainwashed belief of orthodox christianity has we know it stinks to high heaven of pride, it boasts in seeking , finding and choosing God , when the scriptures teaches the opposite. .

The narrow gate is just as impossible to find has the camel passing through the eye of the needle is, because the scripture emphatically teaches there is none that seeketh after God .
LOL. If you hear Christ knocking at the door, then who found who? All you need to do is open the door and let him enter.

I think you are too quick to accuse others of pride and boasting, when it is obvious you are the one guilty of it yourself. You are looking down at the "brainwashed Christians" and boast that you are the smart one who has it all figured out. Not only that, but you also build your argument around a claim that no one has made. No one has said God is not needed for salvation, so why do you insist that someone has said so?

PS Your comments prove you have no clue what Jesus means by "narrow gate".

BTW Why are you so angry?
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