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Old 06-01-2010, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
35,826 posts, read 12,960,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
What you really can't see is that you are taking credit for your own salvation.

Do you really think you had the insight in your fallen nature to discover the narrow gate ?
You keep accusing others for taking credit for salvation, but that is a horribly dishonest statement to make.

When Jesus says one must be born again, I suppose you read it as "I will force you to be born again". No, you decide whether or not you want to be born again. You open the door when He knocks. You show up at the wedding wearing the right clothes. You go through the narrow gate. Yes, you do have a role to play, because God will not force you, or anyone else to salvation, you have to accept it. Either you allow Christ to save you or you don't.

NO ONE has said they saved themselves. NO ONE!!
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Old 06-01-2010, 09:06 AM
 
Location: RI
19,366 posts, read 9,504,628 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
You keep accusing others for taking credit for salvation, but that is a horribly dishonest statement to make.

When Jesus says one must be born again, I suppose you read it as "I will force you to be born again". No, you decide whether or not you want to be born again. You open the door when He knocks. You show up at the wedding wearing the right clothes. You go through the narrow gate. Yes, you do have a role to play, because God will not force you, or anyone else to salvation, you have to accept it. Either you allow Christ to save you or you don't.

NO ONE has said they saved themselves. NO ONE!!
Accusing ???

You mentioned the born again verse , did you have any say in your natural birth ? how much more then is it true of spiritual birth ?.

It simple ,If you believe you played your part you obviously are taking some form of credit.

What part of there is none that seeketh after God, i was found by them that sort me not is difficult to understand.

The fact of the matter is we were blind until Jesus opened our eyes , so if we were blind prior to this, tell me how you found the narrow gate ?was there a gps system in your cane ?.

The more i hear such contradictory comments from mainstream christianity the more i believe the title of this thread is true.


The angry universalist
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Old 06-01-2010, 09:29 AM
 
6,209 posts, read 3,968,069 times
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No one births themselves, no one chooses to be born.
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Old 06-01-2010, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
35,826 posts, read 12,960,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Accusing ???

You mentioned the born again verse , did you have any say in your natural birth ? how much more then is it true of spiritual birth ?.

It simple ,If you believe you played your part you obviously are taking some form of credit.
Yes, accusing. Now you seem to have downgraded "taking the credit" to "taking some of the credit". heh-heh . Perhaps you are starting to see your error.

If I go and see a doctor who cures my illness, then am I taking the credit for the cure because I went to see him? It would be silly to suggest that, wouldn't it, yet that is exactly what you are saying.

Only Christ can save, but he will not force it upon you unless you accept the salvation. Is that so difficult to understand?



Romans 10:10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
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Old 06-01-2010, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
35,826 posts, read 12,960,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
No one births themselves, no one chooses to be born.
Eeeehhh... we are not discussing physical birth here .

How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again" (John 3:1-7).How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again" (John 3:1-7).
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Old 06-01-2010, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Little Elm, TX
6,947 posts, read 7,349,594 times
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Finn, I think what we're saying is it is God that gives a man the hunger to even seek (there is none that seeketh after God), and the faith to believe (by grace you are saved through faith, and that - faith - not of yourselves).

The stance that salvation is of God - totally - is consistent with the belief that man is depraved and totally helpless in himself, or as scripture calls us "dead". Dead men can't cry out, can't seek, can't do anything.

It's all God - He gets all the glory.
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Old 06-01-2010, 09:53 AM
 
Location: RI
19,366 posts, read 9,504,628 times
Reputation: 1346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Yes, accusing. Now you seem to have downgraded "taking the credit" to "taking some of the credit". heh-heh . Perhaps you are starting to see your error.

If I go and see a doctor who cures my illness, then am I taking the credit for the cure because I went to see him? It would be silly to suggest that, wouldn't it, yet that is exactly what you are saying.

Only Christ can save, but he will not force it upon you unless you accept the salvation. Is that so difficult to understand?


Romans 10:10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
Down grading , i don't know your heart , so how do i know how much credit you credit to yourself for salvation , i can only go by what you are posting.

So you do believe you chose to be born naturally as well as spiritually .

If you read John 3 Jesus never once said you must choose to be born again , he stated a fact that you must be born again to enter , if you cannot understand that you were not involved in your natural birth on earth are you going to be able to understand spiritual birth.

Even though Levi had not yet been born, he was in the body of Abraham when Melchizedek met him(Heb 7 verse 10). Do you see from this scripture that we were in Him (God) and that we being in Him already were birthed by God Himself .


Again i agree with the OP because the abuse we need to expose is the abuse to the mind , centuries of false teaching which more often than not either controls the mind or condemns it . What's worse is the abuse of the mind is by sincere christians and even worse still those who are effected are sincere christians.

Last edited by pcamps; 06-01-2010 at 10:05 AM..
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Old 06-01-2010, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
35,826 posts, read 12,960,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
The stance that salvation is of God - totally - is consistent with the belief that man is depraved and totally helpless in himself, or as scripture calls us "dead". Dead men can't cry out, can't seek, can't do anything.

It's all God - He gets all the glory.
I know only Christ can save, and I know you know that because I have said it several times already. All you gotta do is allow him to save you.
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Old 06-01-2010, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Little Elm, TX
6,947 posts, read 7,349,594 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I know only Christ can save, and I know you know that because I have said it several times already.
So the reason I know it is because you told me?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
All you gotta do is allow him to save you.
Scripture tells us to choose, and I've addressed what that entails - but scripture also tells us that God is not prohibited from doing His will by anything or anyone.

Sovereignty Scriptures

If you don't choose Him, He will wear you down until you do - simple as that. If you're reading that everyone will ultimately make the "choice", then yes - none can defy Him, outlast Him, refute or turn Him, etc.

Read the bible - my God's big.
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Old 06-01-2010, 10:30 AM
 
Location: RI
19,366 posts, read 9,504,628 times
Reputation: 1346
Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
So the reason I know it is because you told me?




Scripture tells us to choose, and I've addressed what that entails - but scripture also tells us that God is not prohibited from doing His will by anything or anyone.

Sovereignty Scriptures

If you don't choose Him, He will wear you down until you do - simple as that. If you're reading that everyone will ultimately make the "choice", then yes - none can defy Him, outlast Him, refute or turn Him, etc.

Read the bible - my God's big.
I especially like this verse from the link

E Acts 16:14 And the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul.
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