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Old 05-24-2010, 12:07 PM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,042,759 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Obviously you didn't get all your facts or you left some out on purpose so as to cover up the sordid story. Read this:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/14314689-post18.html
Quote:
Religious minister
Numerous media outlets alleged that Yates' minister, Michael Peter Woroniecki, bears some responsibility for the deaths, reporting that he and his wife built a framework of homicidal and suicidal delusions in Yates' impressionably ill mind through "relentless gloom and doom sermonizing."She had come to believe that she was a "bad mother" who was spiritually and behaviorally damaging her children, and that it was better to kill herself and her offspring rather than to allow them to continue "stumbling" and go to hell--a staple of her minister's teaching to parents found on his 1996 video, which the Yates both received from him and watched. After viewing this video, Dr. Lucy Puryear told Houston's KTRK-13 News and Good Morning America that although Andrea would have still been mentally ill, she didn't believe Yates would have ever drowned her children had it not been for Woroniecki's religious influences.

No body knew Andrea's heart that day but God.....
There are NO, facts and what Dr. Lucy Puryear said, it is only her speculation, not a definite proof that is why Andrea did what she did !! No one can make that kind of judgment, regardless !!!

How could I have left out on purpose when I posted the link to where I got my information, once again you are judging falsely !!!
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:07 PM
 
3,576 posts, read 454,230 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latte'Chic View Post
[b]You are incorrect of your accusation of Andrea Yates, just because you believe she did does not make this the truth....

Here is a snippet of her testimony recorded by the Officer who interviewed her to why she did what she did....

At Houston Police headquarters, an officer turned on a tape recorder to take the formal statement of the woman who had already admitted to killing all of her children. Her name was Andrea Pia Yates and she was 36 years old. She stared straight ahead as she answered questions and said, with little energy, that she understood her rights.

"Who killed your children?" the officer asked.

"I killed my children." Her eyes were blank.

"Why did you kill your children?"

"Because I'm a bad mother."


The article also stated she suffered severe depression. No where in the article does it state she did it because she believed in Eternal Torment or with her affliation with a church, religion, etc.

[/url]


May God have mercy on this false accusation for this woman who was very ill mentally and you have passed false judgment !!

Maybe you, Eusebius, should have read the links before you made the statement that....."so they would not suffer eternally in hell." How awful, to say such thing of someone who had such severe depression and battle mental illness.

I'm not even going to go there with the Jim Jones, yet you have boldly stated just because of his belief..... when you have no idea what was in his heart, and that is the reason for what happen that dreadful day.....
Latte

Here is an excerpt of why she thought she was a bad mother

Quote:
While in prison, Andrea stated she had considered killing the children for two years, adding that they thought she was not a good mother and claimed her sons were developing improperly. Yates told her jail psychiatrist, "It was the seventh deadly sin. My children weren't righteous. They stumbled because I was evil. The way I was raising them, they could never be saved. They were doomed to perish in the fires of hell."
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:17 PM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,042,759 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
Latte

Here is an excerpt of why she thought she was a bad mother
My goodness what is wrong with you people, the woman was severely depressed, mentally ill, no one is going to think healthy..... go ahead and try to justify!!
I just feel sorry for all of you who claim to have such compassion, love and yet you judge a woman who could not even think, reason, healthy !!
And use her to justify you disagreement with those who believe the truth of God's word !! Sad, sad, sad !!! To use someones mental illness to justify universalism.....
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:28 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,683,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latte'Chic View Post
My goodness what is wrong with you people, the woman was severely depressed, mentally ill, no one is going to think healthy..... go ahead and try to justify!!
I just feel sorry for all of you who claim to have such compassion, love and yet you judge a woman who could not even think, reason, healthy !!
And use her to justify you disagreement with those who believe the truth of God's word !! Sad, sad, sad !!! To use someones mental illness to justify universalism.....
Nope, your using it to rationalize not seeing the horrid garbage you believe in.
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:45 PM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,042,759 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Nope, your using it to rationalize not seeing the horrid garbage you believe in.
No your wrong..... I was raised by a parent just like Andrea, till I was seventeen who was mentally ill and was abused in ways that would raise the hair on most of your heads.
No rationalizing here !!

But the God that I serve saved my life and also gave me the grace, compassion, and love to complete forgive that parent, holding no reservation toward them.

You people really need to be cautious in what you accuse other's of especially when you have no idea of their life and where they have come from.....

I will never turn my back on God for what He has saved me from, I believe every word written in that Bible..... He has proved and blessed me over and over again..... through it and it is not horrid garbage !!

Like I said using her mental illness to justify your universalism is soooo sad !!
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:48 PM
 
3,576 posts, read 454,230 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latte'Chic View Post
My goodness what is wrong with you people, the woman was severely depressed, mentally ill, no one is going to think healthy..... go ahead and try to justify!!
I just feel sorry for all of you who claim to have such compassion, love and yet you judge a woman who could not even think, reason, healthy !!
And use her to justify you disagreement with those who believe the truth of God's word !! Sad, sad, sad !!! To use someones mental illness to justify universalism.....
Latte,

I am not using it to justify universalism what I am saying that what influenced her behaviour was her beliefs. Beliefs have an effect on your state of mind which in turn influence your actions.

I am judging the beliefs that she was fed by pastor which had an effect of her state of mind.........

I was brought up with the hell fire and brimstone eternal torment and due to a lot of things I tried to commit suicide when I was 18 years old, I was suffering from depression and it was due to the doctrines that I was fed as a child. Mental illness is not separate from your beliefs. Your beliefs and others condemnation can lead to depression or worsen existing depressive tendancies.

In my case part of my despair was that none of us choose to be born, and I could see that there were billions upon billions who had been born and had not heard the gospel and so were doomed to eternity in hell, also I had no assurance that I even I would not go to hell, and that I felt human and sinful and there were contradictory things in the bible and, and, .... it all got too much.
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:48 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,683,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latte'Chic View Post
No your wrong..... I was raised by a parent just like Andrea, till I was seventeen who was mentally ill and was abused in ways that would raise the hair on most of your heads.
No rationalizing here !!

But the God that I serve saved my life and also gave me the grace, compassion, and love to complete forgive that parent, holding no reservation toward them.

You people really need to be cautious in what you accuse other's of especially when you have no idea of their life and where they have come from.....

I will never turn my back on God for what He has saved me from, I believe every word written in that Bible..... He has proved and blessed me over and over again..... through it and it is not horrid garbage !!

Justify it all you want.....


Awesome, then you do believe God will save all mankind, I apologize for my misconception.
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Old 05-24-2010, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,381,502 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latte'Chic View Post
No your wrong..... I was raised by a parent just like Andrea, till I was seventeen who was mentally ill and was abused in ways that would raise the hair on most of your heads.
No rationalizing here !!

But the God that I serve saved my life and also gave me the grace, compassion, and love to complete forgive that parent, holding no reservation toward them.

You people really need to be cautious in what you accuse other's of especially when you have no idea of their life and where they have come from.....

I will never turn my back on God for what He has saved me from, I believe every word written in that Bible..... He has proved and blessed me over and over again..... through it and it is not horrid garbage !!

Justify it all you want.....
I'm sorry that you grew up like that, but I can tell you, without a doubt in my mind that the doctrine of eternal torment in the fires of hell does strange things to people's souls. A belief that God will be setting people on fire forever has created the worst legalism imaginable.

If you have wayward children that you LOVE with all your heart, yet TRULY can imagine a loving God burning their flesh for eternity, the mind either revolts and separates emotionally from those that are doomed and you withdraw love or you become indifferent to the suffering of your enemies or children.

The rebellious and out-of-control child in a traditional "Christian" home will NOT receive the LOVE it takes to bring them back into sanity. I believe that with all my heart. I lived it, my family has lived it, and I've seen MANY others who have lived it! My children have suffered, I'm sure, from my previous belief in the traditional Greek hell. Not that I PHYSICALLY abused them, but, probably emotionally; withdrawing love is a terrible thing to do to your children. Especially when they are already confused about God and confused and tormented by this world (I know I was when I was younger, and so are most teens).

What about the Prodigal son? His father did not threaten him with torture. He just waited and welcomed his son home with open arms when his son got tired of sex, drugs, and rock n roll.

Jesus told us to LOVE our enemies!!

The Muslims believe in eternal torment and will not convert and see the LOVE of the God that made them. How has this belief affected them? And I'm talking about die-hard fanatical Muslims who think that the USA is a satanic country. Do you ever ponder these things? What happens when you think a god will torture humanity for eternity? What kind of god is this??? Sounds like a pagan god to me. And not just any old pagan god, but.......

Last edited by herefornow; 05-24-2010 at 01:16 PM..
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Old 05-24-2010, 01:05 PM
 
3,576 posts, read 454,230 times
Reputation: 385
Latte,

Did you seek God first or did he save you and then after he saved you, you follow him and serve him BECAUSE he saved you and loved you first?
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Old 05-24-2010, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,287,428 times
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When is Salvation effective - Rom 10:9
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