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Old 05-23-2010, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,404,036 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
This part shows that EVERYONE can be saved, but the requirement is to enter through the narrow gate. It is a choice everyone needs to make personally. That is Jesus' answer to the question "will only a few be saved". And he adds that many will not be able to enter. It is not complicated.

24"Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. 25Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, 'Sir, open the door for us.'
The word here is narrow from obstacles standing close about. Therefore it is not Jesus blocking their way but obstacles. According to the whole chapter it is the rules of the synagogue that are standing as obstacles...

See my previous post.

The owner of the house is God. Why does he close the door to the house? Because the house has become desolate.

Jer. 12:11 It will be made a wasteland, parched and desolate before me; the whole land will be laid waste because there is no one who cares.

Daniel 8:13 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, "How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled--the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, and the surrender of the sanctuary and of the host that will be trampled underfoot?"

Both these prophecies were fulfilled when the sacrificial system was abolished in Jerusalem (70 AD), and this is exactly what Jesus is talking about in this chapter. It is the leaven of the pharisee and Sadducee and the Sanhedrin that causes the temple to be desolate.

Misunderstanding the text is the most common cause of doctrine that mirrors the pharisees rather than the mind of Christ.. IMO
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Old 05-23-2010, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,586 posts, read 31,984,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
Facts regarding the OP:
1. Jesus did not say few will ever be saved.
2. Jesus did say countless many will be saved.

So regarding the original question, which should I believe? Many or few?
Jesus said many will NOT make it.

Hey, the more the better, but the point is that MANY will not make it, which blows away the UR belief that ALL will be saved.

Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 05-23-2010 at 04:14 PM..
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Old 05-23-2010, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,586 posts, read 31,984,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Consent Withdrawn View Post
You are right, that was personal and out of line. I am sorry. You are probably the exception to the rule, but in my experience, most people who believe in that abhorrent doctrine portray just the attitude that I falsely and unfairly ascribed to you. Peace
That's cool. Peace.
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Old 05-23-2010, 04:10 PM
 
1,711 posts, read 1,566,988 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Jesus said many will NOT make it.

Heck, the more the better, but the point is that MANY will not make it, which blows away the UR belief that ALL will be saved.
Already addressed that two ways.
1. The Jews who sought salvation by their own strength rather than by faith were not able to enter, yet Paul said that God can graff them in again. So "not able" does not mean "not ever able".
2. A person who is "not able" to do something, can be made able by God. The disciples were "not able" to cast out demons by their own strength. Did that mean they were "not ever able" to do so? No, later by faith they were able.

Jesus said that the number of saved will be many not few:
Is countless many or few?
Is numbered without measure many or few?
Are the sands of the sea many or few?
Are there many or few stars in heaven?
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Old 05-23-2010, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,586 posts, read 31,984,992 times
Reputation: 9424
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
The word here is narrow from obstacles standing close about. Therefore it is not Jesus blocking their way but obstacles....
No, of course it is not Jesus who blocks the way. The devil deceives people so that they can't find the way.
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Old 05-23-2010, 04:33 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,763,217 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
I guess the Word of God is applicable only if twisted to sooth your ears...because you question God's holy Word here...by stating...




...but then you "contort"...and say this...


Second, Jesus was referring the Kingdom of God which he believed was going to be ushered in on earth during his lifetime.[/quote]...you have got to be kidding...seriously...oh boy...dear LORD!


...anyway (I have to get AWAY from ^^ THAT, and QUICK!!!, THEN!...as if that wasn't enough!...you go on to say...

O.K!!!...and just what "fairy tale" are YOU the main character in...?whew!....way on out there.......!!!...!!!...WHATEVER!!!
Consent withdrawn is an agnostic/atheist and this is NOT a proper Christian response. How do you expect to reach anyone with posts like this? Where's the love?
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Old 05-23-2010, 04:52 PM
 
3,010 posts, read 2,267,536 times
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Matt. 10:14!
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Old 05-23-2010, 07:50 PM
 
768 posts, read 935,274 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
The gospel of Mark shows that Jesus expected to be crucified.
  • Mark 2:20 But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days.
  • Mark 9:9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.
  • Mark 9:12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.
  • Mark 10:33 Saying, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be delivered unto the chief priests, and unto the scribes; and they shall condemn him to death, and shall deliver him to the Gentiles: 34 And they shall mock him, and shall scourge him, and shall spit upon him, and shall kill him: and the third day he shall rise again
  • Mark 14:27 And Jesus saith unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered.
  • Mark 14:28 But after that I am risen, I will go before you into Galilee


YouTube - Misquoting Jesus, Stanford Lecture, How Bible Tainted 5/10
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Old 05-24-2010, 04:31 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,581,108 times
Reputation: 1584
Well, FJ - I will hand it to you, that used to be one of the most terrifying scriptures for me personally back when I was still held in prison chains before God set my soul free. In fact, not one person is going to be set free from fear until God does the work of deliverance. No one can deliver from His hand. Even you cannot come into the freedom from fear because God has not done that work in you yet. Until then, you will naturally continue to tremble at certain scriptures. Flesh and blood cannot enter the Kingdom. There were many years when I BELIEVED IN JESUS CHRIST AND GOD THE FATHER (in my mind) and I sought after them carefully too, but I did not have the peace of Christ in my heart UNTIL GOD'S APPOINTED TIME.

Heartsong
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Old 05-24-2010, 04:43 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,581,108 times
Reputation: 1584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
This part shows that EVERYONE can be saved, but the requirement is to enter through the narrow gate. It is a choice everyone needs to make personally. That is Jesus' answer to the question "will only a few be saved". And he adds that many will not be able to enter. It is not complicated.

24"Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. 25Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, 'Sir, open the door for us.'
FJ -
All are bound to disobedience until GOD sets them free. Free Will and the notion of being SAVED by the power of YOUR WILL is a deception. Listen to the illustration of this truth..........


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xo0YESewCUE
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