Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
With scripture as a referrence...not just thoughts.
Quote:
Yup, but not as simply a different manifestation of the Father.
IMO, I pray to Jesus, the Holy Spirit, or the Father, I am praying to God....when I am praying to God, I am speaking to all three of them as one Mighty God.
Perhaps the best way to understand the role of the Trinity in prayer is that we pray to the Father, through (or in the name of) the Son, by the power of the Holy Spirit.
All three are active participants in the believer’s prayer.
Perhaps the best way to understand the role of the Trinity in prayer is that we pray to the Father, through (or in the name of) the Son, by the power of the Holy Spirit.
All three are active participants in the believer’s prayer.
Scripture does...if one choses to read it with a believing heart.
God the Father spoke
God the Son was in the water
God the Holy Spirit decended
3 persons ... 1 God
Is Jesus the Son of God also Christ ?
God who is Spirit , who is also our Father and who the son of God called Father was in Christ , how hard is that to understand ? considering Jesus said "the Lord our God is one God" , why would i want to choose in the 3 god trinity with a believing heart has you put it ?
For myself I have no problem with Jesus being God as I believe He is God.
However, Jesus is NOT God the Father, never was , never will be.
Jesus always made a distinction between Himself and the Father and that distinction is good enough for me.
For those who take Jesus' statement the Father and I are one to mean that Jesus is saying He is God the Father is not logical for Jesus also says the WE are to be one with the Father as He himself is one with the Father. Are we then to assume we are also God the Father? Hardly
There is only ONE God the Father, Jesus is not HIM and neither are we.
Yes Jesus is God and was made flesh, but to take those scriptures to mean John was speaking of the Father being made flesh is to undo the sacrifice the Father made in sending His SON Jesus for us.
The Jews in the times just after the time of Christ also stumbled in this same area believing that the Messiah was God the Father using this scripture to prove that God/Father will not give His glory to another.
Isaiah 42:8
8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
But that is NOT what that scripture is saying, read it in context.
Isaiah 42:5-13
5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee,and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. 9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them. 10 Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his praise from the end of the earth, ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein; the isles, and the inhabitants thereof. 11 Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains. 12 Let them give glory unto the LORD, and declare his praise in the islands.
13 The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies.
The Father is NOT saying He will keep His glory unto Himself, the Father IS saying that He will only give His glory unto Christ and NO OTHER. For is it not Christ who is the light of the Gentiles?, is it Not Christ who delivers out of the prison houses? is it not Christ who opens the eyes of the blind?
Jesus is God, He is just NOT God the Father.
Numbers 21:8-9
8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live. 9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.
This serpent of brass point us to Christ
John 3:12-14
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Jesus is God, but Jesus is NOT God the Father they are two different persons, the trinity doctrine is in error.
Those who worship Jesus as God the Father/trinity doctrine error after the same fashion as the children of Israel once did, making an idol out of Christ.
2 Kings 18:3-4
3 And he did that which was right in the sight of the LORD, according to all that David his father did. 4 He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.
For myself I have no problem with Jesus being God as I believe He is God.
However, Jesus is NOT God the Father, never was , never will be.
Jesus always made a distinction between Himself and the Father and that distinction is good enough for me.
For those who take Jesus' statement the Father and I are one to mean that Jesus is saying He is God the Father is not logical for Jesus also says the WE are to be one with the Father as He himself is one with the Father. Are we then to assume we are also God the Father? Hardly
There is only ONE God the Father, Jesus is not HIM and neither are we.
Yes Jesus is God and was made flesh, but to take those scriptures to mean John was speaking of the Father being made flesh is to undo the sacrifice the Father made in sending His SON Jesus for us.
Amen to every one of your statements, without exception.
For myself I have no problem with Jesus being God as I believe He is God.
However, Jesus is NOT God the Father, never was , never will be.
Jesus always made a distinction between Himself and the Father and that distinction is good enough for me.
For those who take Jesus' statement the Father and I are one to mean that Jesus is saying He is God the Father is not logical for Jesus also says the WE are to be one with the Father as He himself is one with the Father. Are we then to assume we are also God the Father? Hardly
There is only ONE God the Father, Jesus is not HIM and neither are we.
Yes Jesus is God and was made flesh, but to take those scriptures to mean John was speaking of the Father being made flesh is to undo the sacrifice the Father made in sending His SON Jesus for us.
The Jews in the times just after the time of Christ also stumbled in this same area believing that the Messiah was God the Father using this scripture to prove that God/Father will not give His glory to another.
Isaiah 42:8
8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
But that is NOT what that scripture is saying, read it in context.
Isaiah 42:5-13
5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee,and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. 9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them. 10 Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his praise from the end of the earth, ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein; the isles, and the inhabitants thereof. 11 Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains. 12 Let them give glory unto the LORD, and declare his praise in the islands.
13 The LORD shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies.
The Father is NOT saying He will keep His glory unto Himself, the Father IS saying that He will only give His glory unto Christ and NO OTHER. For is it not Christ who is the light of the Gentiles?, is it Not Christ who delivers out of the prison houses? is it not Christ who opens the eyes of the blind?
Jesus is God, He is just NOT God the Father.
Numbers 21:8-9
8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live. 9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.
This serpent of brass point us to Christ
John 3:12-14
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Jesus is God, but Jesus is NOT God the Father they are two different persons, the trinity doctrine is in error.
Those who worship Jesus as God the Father/trinity doctrine error after the same fashion as the children of Israel once did, making an idol out of Christ.
2 Kings 18:3-4
3 And he did that which was right in the sight of the LORD, according to all that David his father did. 4 He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.
I gotta think on this one. Thanks as always, pneuma.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
