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Old 05-23-2010, 05:53 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
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I read this post and decided to address the issue using what the Bible says.

Quote:
Originally Posted by C_D_poster View Post
Jesus Christ was A son OF god. And I really do not understand why anyone believes that jesus was or, much less, IS god. God is an entity and bodiless energy and/or lifeforce, and jesus was a living, breathing human being born of this earth and concrete; simply because jesus did (according to some, myself included) embody the spirit of god at one point (and the length of time is certainly debatable) during his life, DOES NOT MAKE HIM GOD. Where, and how is it exactly that people get the idea that jesus and god are one in the same?!? While I certainly can accept the fact that some people like to worship jesus as if he were a god, I as well hope those who do are willing to accept the fact that they are worshipping a human being, period. While Jesus may have REPRESENTED all that god was, and may have been the embodiment OF god, jesus was still a living, breathing, walking man, period. One helluva cool, beautiful man, yes. One who would be pretty confused by, not to mention utterly disgusted with a good lot of his followers...

My understanding is that Jesus is indeed God in the flesh. God made Himself flesh and hung out with humans for about 33 years. I believe this because of what I have read in the Bible.

My understanding:

There are a number of scriptures that state the same attribute for God and Jesus. Jesus and God cannot both possess these particular attributes, unless they are one and the same.

Compare what is said about God and Jesus:

As Creator of all things:
God: Genesis 1:1
Jesus: Colossians 1:16

As Savior
God: Isaiah 43:11
Jesus: Titus 3:6

The Alpha and Omega:
God: Revelation 21:6
Jesus: Revelation 22:13

The First and the Last:
God: Isaiah 44:6
Jesus: Revelation 1:17 & 2:8

Every Knee Shall Bow to me:

God: Isaiah 45:23
Jesus: Philippians 2:10-11

****************
Read John 10:30-33 --Jesus said, I and My Father are one.”
Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

See what the Jews said in reaction to Jesus saying He and the Father were one. They knew what Jesus meant.

And look at what the Jews said in Luke 5:20-25--When Jesus saw their faith, He said to him, “Man, your sins are forgiven you.” And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, “Who is this who speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins but God alone?” But when Jesus perceived their thoughts, He answered and said to them, “Why are you reasoning in your hearts? Which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Rise up and walk’? But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins”—He said to the man who was paralyzed, “I say to you, arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.” Immediately he rose up before them, took up what he had been lying on, and departed to his own house, glorifying God.

The Jews were correct in saying that only God can forgive sins.

We have scriptures that say Jesus is God such as John 1:1--In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And then John 1:14-- And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. (bear in mind that God can be in two or more places at once.)

Phil 2:5-8 says: Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

1Tim 3:16 says: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:

God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory. (NKJV)


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Old 05-23-2010, 06:05 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
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I believe it is perfectly accurate to refer to Jesus as "God." That doesn't mean He is the same individual as His Father, who is also "God." "God," in the Christian usage, is synonymous with "Godhead." It is a collective noun, meant to describe three who are united in will and purpose, mind and heart as "one." I believe that even though Jesus Christ possesses all of the same divine attributes and qualities His Father has (i.e. they are equal in knowledge, power, love, etc.), He is subordinate to His Father in terms of their relationship. Both of them, however are legitimately referred to as "God" (as is the Holy Ghost) because they are so unequivocably and absolutely united.
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Old 05-23-2010, 06:11 PM
 
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What I believe is that Jesus is the Son ..... of ..... God.

God is his FATHER

And through him we will be reconciled to God.

He came from his Father to do his Fathers will -- not his own will.
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
What I believe is that Jesus is the Son ..... of ..... God.

God is his FATHER

And through him we will be reconciled to God.

He came from his Father to do his Fathers will -- not his own will.
I agree. God cannot be his own father. From Jesus' own lips we see he was not the father and the father is God.
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Old 05-24-2010, 05:32 PM
 
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Default God is Spirit John 4:24

I believe that The Spirit of The Almighty God dwelt in the sinless body of our Christ Jesus. To redeem his creation from the fall...he had to become one of his creation and still be God...the omniscient and omnipresent!
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Old 05-24-2010, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ans57 View Post
I believe that The Spirit of The Almighty God dwelt in the sinless body of our Christ Jesus. To redeem his creation from the fall...he had to become one of his creation and still be God...the omniscient and omnipresent!
Jesus was neither omniscient ("only the Father knows), nor omnipresent (he had a body... ).

Jesus was a Man, the mediator, son of man, son of God, image of God, but not God.

However, I do agree with your first statement. The Spirit of God dwelt in the body of Christ Jesus.
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Old 05-24-2010, 06:48 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
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YES, Jesus is God! Praise Him!

In John 8:58 when Jesus said "before Abraham was born, I am," the Jews knew exactly what he was saying. Notice that he says before Abraham was born (using the past tense) and then he switches to the present tense when he says "I am." Jesus switches tenses of the verbs on purpose so that when he does so in the context of referencing Abraham, Jesus is clearly drawing the Jews' attention to the Old Testament Scriptures and then using a present tense form of the verb "to be" by saying "I AM".

Jesus was clearly causing the Jews to reflect upon the divine name "I am" that Jesus used for himself. We know that they understood because they said, "You, being a man, make yourself out to be God," (John 10:33).

John 20:28-29, "Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" 29 Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."

It is clearly obvious that Jesus is indeed God.
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Old 05-24-2010, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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God took on the flesh as Jesus. Christ is the Holy One of Israel, the saviour, as God is the only saviour, and is where the fulness of the Godhead dwells.

Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

In 1 Cor. 10:26, it is said that, "The earth is the Lord’s and all it contains." "The Lord" in that verse is identified in verses 21,22 as being none other than the Lord Jesus. The verse was quoted from Ps. 24:1: "The earth is Yahweh's, and all it contains."

In Matt. 21:15,16, the children were praising Jesus in the Temple, saying, "Hosanna to the Son of David." The chief priests and the scribes reacted indignantly to this praise and protested to Jesus, "Do you hear what these are saying?" Jesus answered them, "Yes; have you never read, ‘Out of the mouth of infants and nursing babes You have prepared praise for Yourself?’"

In defending the children's praise of Him, Jesus quoted Psa 8:2 (LXX).
In the Hebrew we see that it is a psalm of praise to Yahweh.
The Son of David is Yahweh.

In Eph. 4:8, we see it taught that Ps. 68:18 (LXX) is speaking of Jesus: "You [Yahweh God, from the Hebrew] are gone up on high; You have led captivity captive, You have received gifts for man, yea, for they were rebellious, that You might dwell among them."

In Rom. 14:11 we read, "For it is written, ‘As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall give praise to God." Phil. 2:11 identifies "the Lord" in this verse as being Jesus. The verse is quoted from Isa. 45:23 (LXX) where "the Lord" is Yahweh, in Hebrew.

In 1 Kings 8:39, it is written, "You [Yahweh] alone know the hearts of all the sons of men," and in 2 Chron. 6:30: "You [Yahweh] alone know the hearts of men." (cross ref. Psa 7:9; 44:21; Acts 1:24; 15:8).

Now see that in Rev. 2:23, Jesus declares that He Himself is "He Who searches the minds and hearts" (cross ref. Jn. 1:47; 2:24,25; 6:64; I Cor. 4:5; Heb. 4:12).
Jesus is Yahweh.

Hebrews 1 takes care of any speculation on the matter, however, it is clearly refuted continuously by means of eisegesis and a faulty understanding based on the absense from the indwelling of the spirit in those that deny this reality.

Last edited by sciotamicks; 05-24-2010 at 07:27 PM..
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Old 05-25-2010, 06:18 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,458,351 times
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Mat 22:44 Said the Lord to my Lord, 'Sit at My right, Till I should be placing Thine enemies underneath "Thy feet!"'?

Psa 110:1 A Davidic Psalm The averring of Yahweh to my Lord: Sit at My right Until I should set Your enemies as a stool for Your feet.

Yahweh is saying to David's Lord, Jesus Christ to do something. Therefore Jesus is not THAT Yahweh.
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Old 05-25-2010, 06:21 AM
 
Location: Indianapolis
4,325 posts, read 5,139,491 times
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I believe that Jesus was the personification of God in His attributes only. How many times in the bible does Jesus say that He prays to His Father? How many times in the bible does Jesus reference His Father who is greater than all? When we see the words I AM, it refers to the part of God that is within us all. Before Abraham was I AM. It just means that his soul existed long before the flesh and that soul rested in the I AM, in God. When jesus became Divine, He was able to proclaim that He and His Father are one because they were alike in attributes and no longer was He just an image.

God is our Father who answers our prayers through angels and former humans. Jesus also had to pray to our Father to become At-One with Him. If He were God, He would have no need to refer to Himself nor pray to Himself. There are many mistranslations in the bible and mistranslations by men. In the right context, you would see that Jesus is not God nor did He ever make that claim.
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