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Old 05-24-2010, 05:44 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,384,512 times
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Sciotamicks believes only apostate Israel is Babylon. I say he has half the equation. Babylon encompasses ALL religion; Catholic, Protestant, and otherwise. The "*****" is in league with the "beast"; Religion and politics.

They have ALWAYS gone hand in hand.

REMEMBER Babylon, it's beliefs and symbols, and then brush up on your history. What was our country founded on? And what are it's symbols? Start looking with your SPIRITUAL eyes around the world.

What say you all?

And, call me crazy if you like, but check out this site;

The Vigilant Citizen

My parents taught me well. Strangely, but well.
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Old 05-24-2010, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,292,342 times
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I point you to Apocalypse One
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Old 05-24-2010, 06:03 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,292,342 times
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Next question...who is responsible for the blood of the prophets and saints?

You need only interpret scripture with scripture please. I am not intersted in anything extra Biblical.
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Old 05-24-2010, 06:05 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,384,512 times
Reputation: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Next question...who is responsible for the blood of the prophets and saints?

You need only interpret scripture with scripture please.

Jews, Catholics, Muslims, and Protestants.

You are a preterist, and you will NEVER see what I am saying with those glasses on. I believe that parts of Revelation have been fulfilled, parts of it not.

Don't put everything into a neat little box. Things are MUCH more complicated than you realize.

And, I have asked you many questions in the past, which you never answered. If you want to start on this thread, that's fine by me. I'm very interested to see how you wiggle your way out of them.
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Old 05-24-2010, 06:42 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
1,315 posts, read 1,530,556 times
Reputation: 144
I see "mystery" Babylon as referring to the Vatican because of its reference to sitting on seven hills and being a mother of harlots simply for its ecumenical stance in having agreements with other religions of the world as well as trying to bring back all christian denomenations into its fold by an ecumenical agreement as well.



I have read on the internet regarding testimonies of a Satanic cult in the Vatican by Catholic cardinals as they were alarmed by it. It does make me wonder why the reference was given about the synagogue of Satan whom said they were Jews but are not since the replacement theology came from the Vatican. Most would contest this, of course, but then again, they cannot deny that the Vatican had long sought to move its spiritual headquarters from Italy to Jerusalem.



*Ahem* That is not saying that is the only corruption present in today's "churches" since God has addressed each of the seven churches in Revelation to examine themselves in the faith and to prune away that which is not of him and the doctrine of the Nicolaitans is the heirarchy placed over local churches when Jesus is to be head over every local church. There is no spiritual validity for having a heirarchy in RCC or Proestant churches either. They may make a cause for practicality, but all I see is pomp and sitting in Moses seat to rule to be served and not to serve.



Ever noticed how Jesus blasting away the Pharisees in Matthew 23 in how they seek honour in pucic places and be addressed with spiritual authority as if they are the head and sit in Moses' seat to rule? Notice the broadening of the phylactories? When will preachers humble themselves and stop wearing them fancy robes and move the seats off of the podiums to declare Jesus as head of the church?



And that is not all that is wrong with the churches, but routines and not wishing to make waves, beuracratic red tapes to prevent the prunings of what always has been even though it is not in the Bible as far as the early church's practises are concerned and yet all these extras to draw people in is hardly being discerned nor questioned as hirelings careth not for the sheep but to get members and maintain their income and the status quo of the church.



All I am saying that any church that fears God had better heed God's call to exmaine themselves and not be complacent about where they are at with the Lord. I see the defining line as honouring the Son (John 5:22-23) in word, deed, hymnals, (Colossians 3:16-17), and prayers (John 14:13-14)as that is the mind of Christ we are to have: Philippians 2:5-11



So may every believer as well as every church that hears... go before that throne of grace for help to be ready for the Marriage Supper as Jesus is Our Good Shepherd as well as our Saviour.



I see the "daughter" of Babylon as USA. The merchants of the sea will not be standing afar off from the shores, weeping over the destruction of the Vatican. The Vatican hardly represents the center of trade and commerce. USA is the prime media giving out the voice of the bride and the bridegroom which will no longer be heard anymore in her after the rapture because the doors are shut for any more to oarticipate with that firstfruit of the resurrection to attend the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. But there is a second harvest coming as those not ready that wer eleft behind shall be restored to the path of righteousness for His name's sake for He will finish His work even in those left behind for going astray and not being found abiding in Him.



So the call to believers to depart from iniquity is still being given out so that by looking to the author and finisher of our faith to trust Him to help them lay aside every weight and sin that so easily beset us so we can run that race in heeding that upward calling of Christ to attend the Marriage Supper. Keeping the faith is the good fight; may the Lord Jesus Christ teach all those that hear His voice to trust Him to help them to follow Him because there are many antichrists in the world that would take our eyes off of Jesus to ourselves or to the Church or to the Spirit when both the Bride and the Spirit are still saying "Come" to the Son, Jesus Christ, in having that reconciled relationship with God the Father. The significance of the personal and chaste relationship should be seen in how the church is the Bride and Jesus is the Bridegroom as He is coming to receive the Bride soon for the Marriage Supper.



So I reckon Babylon is dependent on what reference and the depiction of that Babylon in that reference is warranted before anyone can say for sure what Babylon is in application by His grace.
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Old 05-24-2010, 06:50 PM
 
139 posts, read 165,843 times
Reputation: 44
i thought this explains it quite well...

Lo this is the city which is built up of and filled with images and likenesses of the ways and truths of God, without the life and power. On her outside there is the likeness of a church, the likeness of a ministry, the likeness of the ordinances, duties, and ways of holiness.

On her inside there is the likeness of the good knowledge, the likeness of repentance and conversion, the likeness of faith, the likeness of zeal for God, the likeness of love to God and his saints, the likeness of the Lamb's meekness and innocence, the likeness of justification, the likeness of sanctification, the likeness of mortification, the likeness of hope, peace, joy, rest, and satisfaction, etc., but the substance, the truth, the virtue of all these is wanting to her; and she herself is found persecuting that very thing, (where it is found in truth), the image of which she cries up.
This, this is the woman that has bewitched the whole earth for these many generations, and is still changing her dresses and paints, that she might still bewitch people, and sit as a queen reigning over their consciences; but blessed is the light which is arisen to discover, and the power which is able to overthrow this stately, this lofty, this mighty city, and all that take part with it.


The Lord God Omnipotent reigns in Zion; and antichrist, with his city Babylon, falls.


It is a deceitful city. imitating zion.. but is without the true power.
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Old 05-24-2010, 06:51 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,384,512 times
Reputation: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow View Post
I see "mystery" Babylon as referring to the Vatican because of its reference to sitting on seven hills and being a mother of harlots simply for its ecumenical stance in having agreements with other religions of the world as well as trying to bring back all christian denomenations into its fold by an ecumenical agreement as well.



I have read on the internet regarding testimonies of a Satanic cult in the Vatican by Catholic cardinals as they were alarmed by it. It does make me wonder why the reference was given about the synagogue of Satan whom said they were Jews but are not since the replacement theology came from the Vatican. Most would contest this, of course, but then again, they cannot deny that the Vatican had long sought to move its spiritual headquarters from Italy to Jerusalem.



*Ahem* That is not saying that is the only corruption present in today's "churches" since God has addressed each of the seven churches in Revelation to examine themselves in the faith and to prune away that which is not of him and the doctrine of the Nicolaitans is the heirarchy placed over local churches when Jesus is to be head over every local church. There is no spiritual validity for having a heirarchy in RCC or Proestant churches either. They may make a cause for practicality, but all I see is pomp and sitting in Moses seat to rule to be served and not to serve.



Ever noticed how Jesus blasting away the Pharisees in Matthew 23 in how they seek honour in pucic places and be addressed with spiritual authority as if they are the head and sit in Moses' seat to rule? Notice the broadening of the phylactories? When will preachers humble themselves and stop wearing them fancy robes and move the seats off of the podiums to declare Jesus as head of the church?



And that is not all that is wrong with the churches, but routines and not wishing to make waves, beuracratic red tapes to prevent the prunings of what always has been even though it is not in the Bible as far as the early church's practises are concerned and yet all these extras to draw people in is hardly being discerned nor questioned as hirelings careth not for the sheep but to get members and maintain their income and the status quo of the church.



All I am saying that any church that fears God had better heed God's call to exmaine themselves and not be complacent about where they are at with the Lord. I see the defining line as honouring the Son (John 5:22-23) in word, deed, hymnals, (Colossians 3:16-17), and prayers (John 14:13-14)as that is the mind of Christ we are to have: Philippians 2:5-11



So may every believer as well as every church that hears... go before that throne of grace for help to be ready for the Marriage Supper as Jesus is Our Good Shepherd as well as our Saviour.



I see the "daughter" of Babylon as USA. The merchants of the sea will not be standing afar off from the shores, weeping over the destruction of the Vatican. The Vatican hardly represents the center of trade and commerce. USA is the prime media giving out the voice of the bride and the bridegroom which will no longer be heard anymore in her after the rapture because the doors are shut for any more to oarticipate with that firstfruit of the resurrection to attend the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. But there is a second harvest coming as those not ready that wer eleft behind shall be restored to the path of righteousness for His name's sake for He will finish His work even in those left behind for going astray and not being found abiding in Him.



So the call to believers to depart from iniquity is still being given out so that by looking to the author and finisher of our faith to trust Him to help them lay aside every weight and sin that so easily beset us so we can run that race in heeding that upward calling of Christ to attend the Marriage Supper. Keeping the faith is the good fight; may the Lord Jesus Christ teach all those that hear His voice to trust Him to help them to follow Him because there are many antichrists in the world that would take our eyes off of Jesus to ourselves or to the Church or to the Spirit when both the Bride and the Spirit are still saying "Come" to the Son, Jesus Christ, in having that reconciled relationship with God the Father. The significance of the personal and chaste relationship should be seen in how the church is the Bride and Jesus is the Bridegroom as He is coming to receive the Bride soon for the Marriage Supper.



So I reckon Babylon is dependent on what reference and the depiction of that Babylon in that reference is warranted before anyone can say for sure what Babylon is in application by His grace.

Somebody is on top of things, I see.
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Old 05-24-2010, 06:55 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,292,342 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Jews, Catholics, Muslims, and Protestants.

You are a preterist, and you will NEVER see what I am saying with those glasses on. I believe that parts of Revelation have been fulfilled, parts of it not.

Don't put everything into a neat little box. Things are MUCH more complicated than you realize.

And, I have asked you many questions in the past, which you never answered. If you want to start on this thread, that's fine by me. I'm very interested to see how you wiggle your way out of them.
My God is not confusing to me, and if He said Israel is responsible for the blood of the prophets, and that Israel was likened to that of Babylon and Egypt, I have to accept that point blank.

I cannot, and never have, even as a Dispensationalist, accepted any interpretation that stems out from the scriptures. The identifications of each and every person, place or thing you could find in the scriptures, is revealed, in the scriptures. Because of these guidelines as a Calvinist, I came to Preterism, after I was accused of it, without ever hearing about it.
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Old 05-24-2010, 07:11 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,384,512 times
Reputation: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
My God is not confusing to me, and if He said Israel is responsible for the blood of the prophets, and that Israel was likened to that of Babylon and Egypt, I have to accept that point blank.

I cannot, and never have, even as a Dispensationalist, accepted any interpretation that stems out from the scriptures. The identifications of each and every person, place or thing you could find in the scriptures, is revealed, in the scriptures. Because of these guidelines as a Calvinist, I came to Preterism, after I was accused of it, without ever hearing about it.

Do you know much about the history of our country and all that it is tied to??

Babylon and Egypt. You don't say.......

What goes hand in hand?? Did you read my post?? HOW many peope are deceived?? WHAT is that great delusion??

When I figured it out, my first question was, WHO then can be saved?

There is a reason Revelation 5:13 is my favorite verse:

Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!"

With God, ALL things are possible.

He concludeth ALL in UNBELIEF!!! Why?

Last edited by herefornow; 05-24-2010 at 07:23 PM..
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Old 05-24-2010, 07:47 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,292,342 times
Reputation: 420
He's talking about Israel who is conlcuded in unbelief.

In regard to Revelation 5:13.....The New Testament introduces the Greek tantamount “ktisis” (κτίσις). Strong’s defines “creature” in this Greek usage as: original formation (properly the act; by implication the thing, literally or figuratively): - building, creation, creature, ordinance.

“Creature” in the New Testament has a contextually shaped denotation to the covenant theology model. The sovereign Creator (God) subpoenas the relative creature by charter of Law. The supposition that the Biblical scriptures alone are revealed is rooted in the view that the Bible indentures its parties by the sacred covenant. The legitimacy of the contract is in the authority, credibility, and righteous judgment of God (the promulgator) in the affidavit of Christ and the apostles.

In Mark 16:13, Jesus decreed the command to “preach the gospel to every creature”. A normal reading of the text does not suggest that Jesus meant every living thing should be preached the gospel to (also see Colossians 1:23, 1:28), but rather all people in the set of all “creatures”.

Romans 8:1-29 give clues to the identity of the “creatures/creation”. But this creation of Romans 8 is newer than the creation of Mark 16:13. The creation of Mark 16:13 referred to the creature under the subpoena of the Law, the Jews.

But the fullness of God’s dispensation (Ephesians 2:1-9, Colossians 1:24-28) incorporates (Ephesians 2:11-22) Gentiles, but was not instituted until after Mark 16:13. The new economy of God is still covenantal but is now fulfilled spiritually, built upon better promises, as they were at the onset when the it was given to Abraham. The new creation is of Jews and Gentiles. Virtually every time the King James Version of the Bible uses the term “creature”, it is always in a covenantal context.

When interpreting the scriptures, the context always suggests how we should approach them. “Creature” is accordingly a colloquial furnishing referring to the set of all votaries influenced by God’s effectual vocation (Colossians 1:29). Essentially, the vocative creature is by grace made into a new being in Christ. God’s sovereign monergism is demonstrated in His creative workmanship (Ephesians 2:10).

Colossians 1:15, 1 Timothy 4, Hebrews 4:13, Revelation 5:13

The New Creation
2 Corinthians 5:17, Galatians 6:15

New Garments
Zechariah 3

The scriptures have nothing to do with our history in regards to prophecy. IMO, we are living in the New Heavens and Earth.
All prophetic revelation has ceased.
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