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Old 05-25-2010, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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What does it mean when the Bible states that Abraham was imputed with righteousness?
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Old 05-25-2010, 10:52 AM
 
Location: RV Park
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It says that God saw his faith, and it was imputed for righteousness. One of my favorite passages (one that the Lord gave to me one night after I had received a prophecy) is Rom 4:

He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

And being fully persuaded that, what He had promised, He was able also to perform. (Glory to God!) And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
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Old 05-25-2010, 06:51 PM
 
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Hey Katjonjj!

The scripture in Genesis 15:6 says "And he put faith in Jehovah; and he proceeded to count it to him as righteousness."

Little Elmer mentioned Paul's references to Abraham in the book of Romans chapter 4, but James also referred to him in James 2:20-23 as an example to prove that faith must be backed up by godly works.
Because of exercising faith in Jehovah and proving it by his works he came to be known as Jehovah's friend. (vs 23)
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Old 05-25-2010, 08:41 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiJay View Post
Hey Katjonjj!

The scripture in Genesis 15:6 says "And he put faith in Jehovah; and he proceeded to count it to him as righteousness."

Little Elmer mentioned Paul's references to Abraham in the book of Romans chapter 4, but James also referred to him in James 2:20-23 as an example to prove that faith must be backed up by godly works.
Because of exercising faith in Jehovah and proving it by his works he came to be known as Jehovah's friend. (vs 23)
I use to think that too... but I was reading Romans 4 exegesis by another poster and in reading further I noticed

"Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin."

Not imputing sin is the same as imputing righteousness, right?

It seems as if God is the only one imputing. The man sinned which is clear... but will his sins be IMPUTED? or Charged to his account?

To be imputed with righteousness Abraham had to have been a sinner, and not that he stopped sinning either. He was imputed as righteous and his sins were not imputed. The impute-er: God.
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Old 05-25-2010, 09:16 PM
 
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I see imputation as really being a two way street. Our sins were imputed to Christ, and His righteousness is imputed to us, to those who believe.

Imputation is really an accounting term, as I see it.

The difference in the imputations is also somewhat different. Our sins were imputed to Christ without our knowledge of it. It took no faith on our part to impute our sins to Christ. However, when we do come to faith (believe the Gospel), and know that our sins are gone and were imputed to Christ, Christ's righteousness becomes known to us and His righteousness is imputed (or reckoned) to our account.
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Old 05-25-2010, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Florida
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Scripturaly/Biblicaly speaking, it is clearly taught that God is NOT COUNTING OUR SINS AGAINST US even while we are YET SINNERS because of what CHRIST HAS ALREADY DONE BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. Lamb slain from the foundation.... It seems to me that part of what's going on in our experience is that when our FLESH sees the sin in others, especially the most heinous of sins -- we cry out for justice - but the Spirit shows mercy (whether or not we like it). It's a little complicated, I admit. As a Universal Salvation believer, sometimes it is hard for me to "see through the eyes of faith" God forgiving people who are particularly unpleasant and nasty. And I tend to believe in judgment even after death - as in people can be "held to account" or "unable to put their sins out of mind" (that kind of judgment) and in great pain will cry out to God for mercy. Isn't that the same thing that happens to us (just that it is on this side of death). And if you never had any sense of God "dealing with you" about sin - then you might want to ask God to reveal your hidden sin to you.

Well, that sure came out like a ramble. I hope it makes sense to somebody.

Heartsong
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:12 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Thanks for all the great posts. I see that our sins aren't counted against us as well..
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Scripturaly/Biblicaly speaking, it is clearly taught that God is NOT COUNTING OUR SINS AGAINST US even while we are YET SINNERS because of what CHRIST HAS ALREADY DONE BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. Lamb slain from the foundation.... It seems to me that part of what's going on in our experience is that when our FLESH sees the sin in others, especially the most heinous of sins -- we cry out for justice - but the Spirit shows mercy (whether or not we like it). It's a little complicated, I admit. As a Universal Salvation believer, sometimes it is hard for me to "see through the eyes of faith" God forgiving people who are particularly unpleasant and nasty. And I tend to believe in judgment even after death - as in people can be "held to account" or "unable to put their sins out of mind" (that kind of judgment) and in great pain will cry out to God for mercy. Isn't that the same thing that happens to us (just that it is on this side of death). And if you never had any sense of God "dealing with you" about sin - then you might want to ask God to reveal your hidden sin to you.

Well, that sure came out like a ramble. I hope it makes sense to somebody.

Heartsong
That is what I am coming to see -- there is a process, God does not hold our sins against us BUT we do need to repent and cry out --- it is then that we are made whole.......

He does not just cover sin he makes the creature NEW --- out of the old creature..... It is not about us saving ourselves.
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Old 05-26-2010, 01:12 AM
 
Location: Italy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
It seems as if God is the only one imputing. The man sinned which is clear... but will his sins be IMPUTED? or Charged to his account?

To be imputed with righteousness Abraham had to have been a sinner, and not that he stopped sinning either. He was imputed as righteous and his sins were not imputed. The impute-er: God.
Personally, I know that scripture says in 2 Cor 5 that God was not imputing sin to man thanks to Christ Jesus! It kinda' sounds as though this who "sin consciousness" stuff is OVER, my friend!

Maybe I'm wrong.. we'll see!

Blessings,
brian
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Old 05-26-2010, 03:36 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
It says that God saw his faith, and it was imputed for righteousness. One of my favorite passages (one that the Lord gave to me one night after I had received a prophecy) is Rom 4:

He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

And being fully persuaded that, what He had promised, He was able also to perform. (Glory to God!) And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
By faith people receive promises, like the promised land, because of that faith.

Not that they did anything extraordinary in the eyes of humanity, but in the eyes of God, it meant everything. They may be just your ordinary guy out there, but their faith "moved mountains," spiritually speaking.

You can tell by reading the Old and New Testament that faith and love are very important to God. I think God needs His people to be child-like just for that reason, at least, for now.

You don't want your kids questioning EVERY step of the way! That kind of behavior would certainly get old after a couple million years. The more knowledge a kid has the more of a pain in the butt they become sometimes, especially if they don't have the love and compassion to go with it.

So, I think that is why that verse says; FAITH, HOPE, and LOVE, but the
greatest of these is LOVE, because even if you aren't filled with faith, if you love, you will still be doing what God wants, basically. Those with a lot of faith make better "soldiers" though, probably.

Does that make sense?
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