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Old 05-26-2010, 06:37 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,403,926 times
Reputation: 682

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
Please refer to my posting history for the last two weeks. You've read it. No point in posting all that stuff again. If you didn't get it the first time posting it up a second won't make any difference.

Why waste both of our time.
Its not a waste of time to clarify what you believe and see how it lines up with scripture. I believe scripture tells us:

1. All will bow and confess Jesus is Lord

2. All will want to do this

3. God will want to save all of them, because He doesn't change His character and purpose


I believe these points are biblical. If you can't refute these points, then you are left with universal salvation. But of course most people think it is either a forced confession or it is some how too late - both of these points are unbiblical and against the character and nature of God.
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Old 05-26-2010, 06:59 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,681,725 times
Reputation: 639
The question

Quote:
Does one have to confess Christ as Lord before one dies in order to be saved?
Universalism is not the only POV that will answer NO to this question.

If a person dies never having heard of Christ and is judged by his /her own merits and that judgment concludes that they are fit for the kingdom then they did NOT have to confess Christ as Lord before they died.
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Old 05-26-2010, 07:19 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,260 posts, read 20,865,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
Read your Bible. Or mine. Or anyone's.

John 3:36 says Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him. NIV

You can't reject what you have not been offered. Any questions?
Well, you can't believe in what you haven't been offered, either. And the scripture does say that whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. The scripture seems to be referring to people who have received the offer. It doesn't seem to be referring to people who haven't. So I'm asking, what about them?
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Old 05-26-2010, 07:27 AM
 
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
13,459 posts, read 21,199,786 times
Reputation: 17675
Does one have to confess Christ in order to be saved?

Isn't believing loving and following His example a good enough confession?
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Last edited by Miss Blue; 05-26-2010 at 09:29 AM..
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Old 05-26-2010, 09:27 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,746,380 times
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It does say this in the Bible:

Romans 10:9
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
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Old 05-26-2010, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
13,459 posts, read 21,199,786 times
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Could "confess with your mouth" be a first prayer?
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Old 05-26-2010, 10:14 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,681,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Blue View Post
Could "confess with your mouth" be a first prayer?

G4750 stoma stom'-a
probably strengthened from a presumed derivative of the base of G5114;
the mouth (as if a gash in the face); by implication, language (and its
relations); figuratively, an opening (in the earth); specially, the front or edge
(of a weapon):--edge, face, mouth.


The verse in question....

Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

.... is not talking about our physical state. You do not believe anything within your physical beating heart, so the idea of the mouth is also not a physical thing.

I believe from my "own" experience is that we confess with our open wounds and imperfection showing plainly as if they were pouring out of a gash.

This belief is from the consciousness of our being.
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Old 05-26-2010, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,384,960 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
G4750 stoma stom'-a
probably strengthened from a presumed derivative of the base of G5114;
the mouth (as if a gash in the face); by implication, language (and its
relations); figuratively, an opening (in the earth); specially, the front or edge
(of a weapon):--edge, face, mouth.


The verse in question....

Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

.... is not talking about our physical state. You do not believe anything within your physical beating heart, so the idea of the mouth is also not a physical thing.

I believe from my "own" experience is that we confess with our open wounds and imperfection showing plainly as if they were pouring out of a gash.

This belief is from the consciousness of our being.
The Hebrews believed that some words when spoken were bad and some were good. I read a page or three , in the Jewish Encyclopedia, about the Euphemisms in ancient Hebrew thought and it was a very interesting read.. They believed it would cause bad things to say the proper name of God (Yahweh) unless in prayer so they substituted that name with Hashem or The Name. Therefore they thought that words had special powers of bad or good. This is still in practice today in some Jewish sects.

So when it says to confess with you mouth it was a seal upon your faith that you had openly announced it. BUT that doesn't mean that God thought that but that those who wrote the bible thought that.

Besides that the verse only says IF YOU CONFESS with your mouth, and doesn't address IF YOU DON'T CONFESS with your mouth... so we can't just assume that if you don't confess that you are not saved...

Other scripture tells us that noone can confess that Jesus is Lord without the HS. Therefore it stands to reason that if you are confessing it then you are a recipient of the HS... but I don't see it the same way as the Hebrews/Jews did then... People say things they don't mean or don't really believe all the time...
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Old 05-26-2010, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
7,902 posts, read 8,476,106 times
Reputation: 11578
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Its not a waste of time to clarify what you believe and see how it lines up with scripture. I believe scripture tells us:

1. All will bow and confess Jesus is Lord

2. All will want to do this

3. God will want to save all of them, because He doesn't change His character and purpose


I believe these points are biblical. If you can't refute these points, then you are left with universal salvation. But of course most people think it is either a forced confession or it is some how too late - both of these points are unbiblical and against the character and nature of God.
Words cannot describle how weary I am of discussing the truth and/or falsehood of Universalism.

I'd rather talk to brick, quite frankly. (not you per se, but to any Universalist on the subject)
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Old 05-26-2010, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
7,902 posts, read 8,476,106 times
Reputation: 11578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
G4750 stoma stom'-a
probably strengthened from a presumed derivative of the base of G5114;
the mouth (as if a gash in the face); by implication, language (and its
relations); figuratively, an opening (in the earth); specially, the front or edge
(of a weapon):--edge, face, mouth.


The verse in question....

Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

.... is not talking about our physical state. You do not believe anything within your physical beating heart, so the idea of the mouth is also not a physical thing.

I believe from my "own" experience is that we confess with our open wounds and imperfection showing plainly as if they were pouring out of a gash.

This belief is from the consciousness of our being.
Nice analysis and word study.

But I prefer the use of the word mouth as people make/speak their confession with the mouth and not thru gashes.
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