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Old 05-25-2010, 04:22 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Universalist View Post
The scriptures plainly teach that if one confesses Christ as lord, they will be saved ... And no one can ever say Christ is lord unless it is by the holy spirit. Also the scriptures also teach that in the end everyone will confess Christ as lord, therefore in the end everyone will be saved.

Nowhere in the scriptures does it teach that one must confess Christ is lord before they die in order to be saved.

Discuss.
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Old 05-25-2010, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,280 posts, read 20,889,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
Discuss.
Well, it would obviously be quite impossible to "confess Christ is Lord" if you'd never heard of Him or had only heard His gospel misrepresented and spoken of disparagingly. God will provide the means by which we will all have an equal opportunity to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ, understand it, and choose to either accept it or reject it prior to being judged. Clearly, this is not necessarily going to happen in this life.
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Old 05-25-2010, 04:40 PM
 
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In Matthew 24: 13 Jesus said ..`` but he that shall endure unto the end the same shall be saved.``...Jesus says that even if you are saved your heart could grow cold get lost to the Lord, but you must turn your heart and get Jesus spirit back before the end of your life to be saved.....
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Old 05-25-2010, 04:54 PM
 
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I would say no. Otherwise salvation would preclude infants that die at birth, or shortly thereafter. How will (or did) David's illegitimate son enter the Kingdom? David did say that he would one day be with him, right?
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Old 05-25-2010, 05:09 PM
 
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There are certainly different views on this one.

There are those who will teach that even if they had not heard the name Christ, they have no excuse.

This is also where the issue of age of accountability comes in even if it is through implication.

Few, if any, sects of Christianity would teach that an aborted baby would be sentenced to eternal doom. That said, then this implies that there is indeed an age at which a human being is responsible for their choice. If an aborted baby is automatically in heaven, then there is an age at which, if not aborted, that same baby must make a choice.

If there is indeed no age of accountability then it could be reasoned that an aborted baby could be in hell, since no one has any excuses, this could include an unborn baby.

However some sects of calvinism would teach that an aborted baby would be doomed by the proxy of Gods predestination. Even further more those who believe in the serpent seed doctrine teach that a certain percentage of humanity are the children of Satan and therefore doomed as well.

Then we have the teachings that we are accountable to God so if someone has not heard they are not accountable for what they do not know. This teaching instructs people to go out into the world and find people who have not heard therefore presenting them with the choice. At that point they have heard and thus, rather than being in heaven out of ignorance, they now have a chance to go to hell forever.


So since there isn't any of the above beliefs that would not have their exegesis handy to prove they are right, I will let them keep hashing it out and simply stick with the God who refuses to give up on anyone.
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Old 05-25-2010, 07:12 PM
 
5,738 posts, read 4,584,813 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
So since there isn't any of the above beliefs that would not have their exegesis handy to prove they are right, I will let them keep hashing it out and simply stick with the God who refuses to give up on anyone.
Amen, brother.
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Old 05-25-2010, 07:46 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,382,240 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
There are certainly different views on this one.

There are those who will teach that even if they had not heard the name Christ, they have no excuse.

This is also where the issue of age of accountability comes in even if it is through implication.

Few, if any, sects of Christianity would teach that an aborted baby would be sentenced to eternal doom. That said, then this implies that there is indeed an age at which a human being is responsible for their choice. If an aborted baby is automatically in heaven, then there is an age at which, if not aborted, that same baby must make a choice.

If there is indeed no age of accountability then it could be reasoned that an aborted baby could be in hell, since no one has any excuses, this could include an unborn baby.

However some sects of calvinism would teach that an aborted baby would be doomed by the proxy of Gods predestination. Even further more those who

believe in the serpent seed doctrine teach that a certain percentage of humanity are the children of Satan and therefore doomed as well.

Then we have the teachings that we are accountable to God so if someone has
not heard they are not accountable for what they do not know. This teaching instructs people to go out into the world and find people who have not heard therefore presenting them with the choice. At that point they have heard and thus, rather than being in heaven out of ignorance, they now have a chance to go to hell forever.


So since there isn't any of the above beliefs that would not have their exegesis
handy to prove they are right, I will let them keep hashing it out and simply stick with the God who refuses to give up on anyone.
So much confusion and nonsense out there. Beautifully said, phazelwood..

And I ESPECIALLY like your last paragraph.
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Old 05-25-2010, 07:54 PM
 
3,576 posts, read 454,899 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Well, it would obviously be quite impossible to "confess Christ is Lord" if you'd never heard of Him or had only heard His gospel misrepresented and spoken of disparagingly. God will provide the means by which we will all have an equal opportunity to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ, understand it, and choose to either accept it or reject it prior to being judged. Clearly, this is not necessarily going to happen in this life.
I agree with this

and it goes against scripture that says that Jesus is the Saviour of all {{in some peoples mind potentially}} but only effective on belief, because for those that have not heard in this lifetime Jesus is not even potential Saviour..........
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Old 05-25-2010, 08:10 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 5,453,633 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
Discuss.

Does one have to confess Christ as Lord before one dies in order to be saved? YES.

Discuss?.........You're here today, right? You've heard, right? What's stopping you? What are you waiting on? How many times have you heard....TODAY IS THE DAY OF SALVATION?
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Old 05-25-2010, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,280 posts, read 20,889,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
Does one have to confess Christ as Lord before one dies in order to be saved? YES.

Discuss?.........You're here today, right? You've heard, right? What's stopping you? What are you waiting on? How many times have you heard....TODAY IS THE DAY OF SALVATION?
I may have asked you this before, Betsey, but I can't remember your answer. Let's say there is a little four-year-old girl living today in North Korea. She has never heard of Jesus Christ, so obviously she has not "confessed Him." If she dies, do you believe she will go to Hell?
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