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Old 06-03-2010, 07:29 PM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,715,331 times
Reputation: 1351

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuffy63 View Post
Unfortunately, many of the more fundamentalist churches will tell you that your common sense is foolishness in God's eyes and you shouldn't rely on it. I know, it sounds so stupid now, but there was a time I was afraid to do anything that would offend God, including think for myself .
*looks around*

Yup...after all, we were to "trust in the lord and lean not to OUR own understanding, right."
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Old 06-03-2010, 10:52 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
200 posts, read 210,781 times
Reputation: 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
*looks around*

Yup...after all, we were to "trust in the lord and lean not to OUR own understanding, right."
LOL, you got it, bro!
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Old 06-05-2010, 07:14 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 5,454,066 times
Reputation: 934
Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
Of course - this is not about you are I - maybe I should rephrase:
If one was an eternal torment believer and an end times believer then why wish to extend it?

Since ET believers also believe that "few there be who find it" and since more people are born than die (ie: the population of earth is greatly increasing daily) then for every day you are "praying for one more day, JUST ONE MORE so that SOMEBODY, ANYBODY can also experience that unspeakable joy that I'm certain we will know; when we're finally home" there are a greater number that will experience eternal agony (according to your ET paradigm).

(If I am misrepresenting your beliefs in any way - PLEASE correct me!)

In fact IF the scripture that you and others have thrown at me when calling me a "scoffer" ie: "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance" means what you think it means then it doesn't make ANY sense. That is BILLIONS more have been damned to eternal torment because of the patience of the Lord.

You see Betsey - I have an agenda too. I believe terrible harm is done BOTH by:

1. false "end times" futurist teachings and:
2. false eternal torment teachings.

So I ask questions - very simple direct questions which expose them (the teachings) for what they are. Believe it or not - I'm fighting FOR you, not against you.

My elderly father (he's 82 and still drives) passed by today as I was working on expanding my wife's store. He made a u-turn and pulled up and said "What are you doing son? You're pouring concrete? Why??? This will ALL be over in a couple of months or so! Don't you watch the news? Israel had to kill some terrorists and they're being called murderers and Armageddon is going to break out any day now! You're wasting your time".

So - instead of a father and son having a nice discussion about the great job I'm doing (I'm building this QUALITY so my GREAT GRAND-KIDS can still be using it!) I get this speech from my dear dad (who has been DUPED out of out of most of his money by end-time scam artists - as I've shared about before) about how anything I plan for the future is futile.

Now granted - "time and chance happen to all" (that's bible) and ALL my efforts MAY be futile (men are snared when an evil time falls upon them) but my point is that I believe that end timers are mis-understanding the scriptures and hurting themselves and others by propagating false understandings about God (in general) and the bible in particular.

So - don't be surprised if I ask some questions on this discussion forum.

Care to address my clear questions?

Of course - you can choose not to but *(in my very humble opinion) someone who is positive they are "final answer" right should jump at the chance to give a clear explanation of their (God given - faith based) reasoning.

What is it you want me to YET again answer....that I haven't already made clear time and time again, firstborn888?

How many times must I say: God's will, WILL be done on earth as it is in Heaven? Do you not understand that nothing of what You, me, she, he, them and those...believe, is in anyway relevant in HIS WORDS coming to pass? All that is needed to know, is there in the Bible. I just happen to believe all of it. The Bible cannot lie! CANNOT!!

I'm not sitting around here twiddling my thumbs "waiting" for the time of the end, as some might think, NO! I have a message that have been place on my soul with great urgency people, stop and take a look around you! It's not the same day! The Earth is not the same....I hear some say, that judgment is in the Earth, well.....she's in PAIN!

Now, call me a fool if you must, but you must know by now, that doesn't phase me in the least. I'm fully committed to the cause of Christ Jesus. His message is quite simple: COME! Times winding up! Whether YOU believe it, or not.

PS: It's always been about His............... final answer!! His agenda!! Amen?

Last edited by Betsey Lane; 06-05-2010 at 07:23 PM..
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Old 06-05-2010, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 5,454,066 times
Reputation: 934
Other points of view: Edward Wood
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Old 06-06-2010, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,569,640 times
Reputation: 843
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
Other points of view: Edward Wood
But... in the article's FIRST scripture quote (from Luke 21) it says "and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven. But
before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you,
delivering you up to their synagogues, and into prisons, being brought
before kings and rulers for my name's sake".

Have you been delivered up into any synagogues lately? This was clearly speaking of persecution against Christians by the Jews. Ask Paul the apostle about all that - he experienced it.

Applying this verses to modern times and dreaming up double fulfillment theories (Scofield style) is where all the problems come in.
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Old 06-06-2010, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,569,640 times
Reputation: 843
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
PS: It's always been about His............... final answer!! His agenda!! Amen?
Amen. My contention is that futurists and eternal tormentists don't have a clue to what God's agenda even is.
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Old 06-06-2010, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 5,454,066 times
Reputation: 934
Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
Amen. My contention is that futurists and eternal tormentists don't have a clue to what God's agenda even is.
His agenda is to save us.
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Old 06-06-2010, 06:38 PM
 
1,883 posts, read 2,482,874 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
His agenda is to save us.
And yet it is yours and others contention that in the vast majority of cases He will fail.
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Old 06-06-2010, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 5,454,066 times
Reputation: 934
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifertexan View Post
And yet it is yours and others contention that in the vast majority of cases He will fail.
On the contrary, the lifeline is being extended TODAY! Grab it! Can one be "saved" after they're already dead? Some would beg to differ, but that's on them. Hey, if you are going to saved anyway.....why wait? Why not grab that HAND of the Savior and be saved TODAY? Why not walk hand in hand with Him TODAY? What are you waiting on?

No, don't answer that! I already know. SIN is SWEET! It's the sweetest treat that you'll ever eat! And some ...just don't want to give up their candy! Let me live as I want now, cause God's going to save me anyway! He just loves me too much to demand justice!

But I tell you friend.....you NEVER sin and get away with it! You might "think" so...... but, there is always a high price to pay when we choose to sin against God. Eventually the time to pay, to suffer the consequences of our rebellion is upon us.

Take a look at the many tragedies that have befallen our nation, at any one of our personal tragedies....pick one, any one! What happens time and time again may I ask you? We go through that season of chastisement, of punishment, and it is during this time that most turn back to the Lord. We ask Him to forgive us, repent of our sins, and in the season of punishment find our relationship with Christ again. Eventually the season of punishment ends and we are back to living our lives again.

Well, there's a storm coming my friend, one much darker than that oil spill in the Gulf! I pray that we have learned our lesson and have strengthened our walk with the Lord and will do all we have to do each day to stay close to Him, live in obedience to His Word, and enjoy the blessings of that relationship with Jesus.

I mean, whether you believe it or, not, HE SAID HE'S coming back! I believe it and want to be found ready. I urge you...if you're not, reach out and grab His hand TODAY. Really, don't wait. Blessings.

Last edited by Betsey Lane; 06-06-2010 at 07:28 PM..
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Old 06-06-2010, 08:47 PM
 
1,883 posts, read 2,482,874 times
Reputation: 598
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
On the contrary, the lifeline is being extended TODAY! Grab it! Can one be "saved" after they're already dead? Some would beg to differ, but that's on them. Hey, if you are going to saved anyway.....why wait? Why not grab that HAND of the Savior and be saved TODAY? Why not walk hand in hand with Him TODAY? What are you waiting on?

No, don't answer that! I already know. SIN is SWEET! It's the sweetest treat that you'll ever eat! And some ...just don't want to give up their candy! Let me live as I want now, cause God's going to save me anyway! He just loves me too much to demand justice!

But I tell you friend.....you NEVER sin and get away with it! You might "think" so...... but, there is always a high price to pay when we choose to sin against God. Eventually the time to pay, to suffer the consequences of our rebellion is upon us.

Take a look at the many tragedies that have befallen our nation, at any one of our personal tragedies....pick one, any one! What happens time and time again may I ask you? We go through that season of chastisement, of punishment, and it is during this time that most turn back to the Lord. We ask Him to forgive us, repent of our sins, and in the season of punishment find our relationship with Christ again. Eventually the season of punishment ends and we are back to living our lives again.

Well, there's a storm coming my friend, one much darker than that oil spill in the Gulf! I pray that we have learned our lesson and have strengthened our walk with the Lord and will do all we have to do each day to stay close to Him, live in obedience to His Word, and enjoy the blessings of that relationship with Jesus.

I mean, whether you believe it or, not, HE SAID HE'S coming back! I believe it and want to be found ready. I urge you...if you're not, reach out and grab His hand TODAY. Really, don't wait. Blessings.

On the contrary?So you believe that all people will be saved as God desires?
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