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Old 07-26-2015, 06:45 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,278 posts, read 20,889,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
And the only way to prove it is by what they believe.
Huh? How do you prove that a church is "true" by what its adherents believe? Or maybe that's not what you meant at all. I just didn't get your comment.
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Old 07-26-2015, 06:59 PM
 
Location: GOVERNMENT of TRAITORS & NAZIS
20,582 posts, read 22,739,853 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Huh? How do you prove that a church is "true" by what its adherents believe? Or maybe that's not what you meant at all. I just didn't get your comment.
In reality there is no way to prove a church is the ONE or that any church is RIGHT, other than it is the "members" believe that makes any church right.

Goes along with that "warm fuzzy feeling."
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Old 07-26-2015, 08:13 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,278 posts, read 20,889,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
In reality there is no way to prove a church is the ONE or that any church is RIGHT, other than it is the "members" believe that makes any church right.
Gotcha. That's what I was thinking. I guess I misunderstood what you originally said.

Of course, I suppose we'll all eventually find out who was right and who was wrong -- except if the atheists are right, in which case none of us will find out anything.
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Old 07-26-2015, 08:31 PM
 
Location: Divided Tribes of America
12,920 posts, read 4,931,025 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Gotcha. That's what I was thinking. I guess I misunderstood what you originally said.

Of course, I suppose we'll all eventually find out who was right and who was wrong -- except if the atheists are right, in which case none of us will find out anything.
Ever see that South Park episode about hell? Where the Protestant guy ends up in hell? Then he asks who was right and Satan says "actually it was the Mormons...the Mormons...yes..."
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Old 07-26-2015, 08:35 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
Ever see that South Park episode about hell? Where the Protestant guy ends up in hell? Then he asks who was right and Satan says "actually it was the Mormons...the Mormons...yes..."
Yeah, I saw it. The funny thing is that if it ends up being the Mormons, everybody else will end up pretty well-off, too. If the fundies end up being right, they're the only ones who will make the cut.
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Old 07-27-2015, 05:11 AM
 
Location: GOVERNMENT of TRAITORS & NAZIS
20,582 posts, read 22,739,853 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Gotcha. That's what I was thinking. I guess I misunderstood what you originally said.

Of course, I suppose we'll all eventually find out who was right and who was wrong -- except if the atheists are right, in which case none of us will find out anything.
It all comes down to who God is---is He vengeful and jealous, or is he MERCIFUL and JUST?
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Old 07-27-2015, 05:55 PM
 
16,083 posts, read 9,255,565 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
It all comes down to who God is---is He vengeful and jealous, or is he MERCIFUL and JUST?
Or all of the above as needed?
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Old 07-27-2015, 06:31 PM
 
Location: GOVERNMENT of TRAITORS & NAZIS
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Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Or all of the above as needed?
cannot be all of the above, he is either love or he is vengeful...kind of like humans being selfish haters or caring for the least of them, we cannot be both..
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Old 07-27-2015, 07:07 PM
 
37,517 posts, read 25,250,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
It all comes down to who God is---is He vengeful and jealous, or is he MERCIFUL and JUST?
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Or all of the above as needed?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
cannot be all of the above, he is either love or he is vengeful...kind of like humans being selfish haters or caring for the least of them, we cannot be both..
This is a common problem with the fundamentalists of all stripes, Zthatzman. They do NOT understand what the phrase "God IS agape love" means . . . emphasis on the "IS." I guess it is like Clinton said. It depends on what the meaning of "IS" is. God IS Spirit. God IS agape love. God IS Holy. The Holy Spirit IS agape love . . . NOT a separate person. All the negative things attributed to God are of human invention in their barbaric ignorance and superstition. There is no room in agape Love for fear, or anger, or jealousy, or envy, or vengeance, or hatred, or anything negative whatsoever! They should read 1 Cor 13, the Sermon on the Mount, and Galatians 5 to fully understand their God.
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Old 07-27-2015, 07:20 PM
 
16,083 posts, read 9,255,565 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
cannot be all of the above, he is either love or he is vengeful...kind of like humans being selfish haters or caring for the least of them, we cannot be both..
I figured this would be your reply. the problem is that you are using the words in English that do not adequately indicate what is meant.

To start the word Love/agape is a principled love not an all encompassing/unlimited/unconditional love.

Friberg Greek Lexicon: 119 avgapa,w mid./pass. avgapw/mai; ***. avgaph,sw; 1aor. hvga,phsa; pf. hvga,phka, ptc. hvgaphkw,j; pf. pass. ptc. hvgaphme,noj; 1fut. pass. avgaphqh,somai; love, especially of love as based on evaluation and choice, a matter of will and action; (1) toward persons love, be loyal to, regard highly (EP 5.25); (2) toward God (MT 22.37); (3) from God (JN 3.16); (4) toward things value, delight in, strive for (LU 11.43); long for (2T 4.8); (5) avga,phn avgapa/n show love (JN 17.26)

27 avgapa,w love (primarily of Christian love); show or prove one's love; long for, desire, place first in one's affections

Liddel and Scott Greek Lexicon (Secular Greek from which Biblical Greek is drawn from) 140 avgapa,w
avga±pa,w, f. h,sw: pf. hvga,phka: Ep. aor. i avga,phsa: (avga,ph):
I. of persons, to treat with affection, to caress, love, be fond of, c.

Thayer's Biblical Greek lexicon: When used of love to a master, God or Christ, the word involves the idea of affectionate reverence, prompt obedience, grateful recognition of benefits received:

It is fondness, affection, long for, based on an evaluation, to show love not just claim it and it requires prompt obedience when we speak of loving God.

Thus those not obedient are not shown love by God beyond granting them the opportunity to change and become obedient.The Apostle John understood this:

KJV 1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Love towards others mean making them aware of how they can be ,loved by god and show such love in return. It is to their advantage:God gives us commands for our benefit and in love actually begs us to listen and obey.

KJV Isaiah 48:18 O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:
The love many claim to have/show is not agape love of or for God, but a selfish love for their own desires or the desires of others that drive them away from God. That is not real love.
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