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Old 05-28-2010, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,635,700 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
If Jesus was God then who was He praying to,I dont think He was praying to Himself-also Jesus was sub-servient to His father the difference between master and servant is significant,

I know Jesus said that He and the father are one,but what exactly did He mean,i think He meant one in spirit,in other words His father is Love and so is He but so are we also, that is in our original transcendental state,we are of the same quality of God but not the same quantity,just like the spark of a fire is the same quality as the fire itself,God is the whole while we are the parts.

bye saying the Father and I are one also could mean that He is in union with the father,everyone originally is in union with God and someday all will return IMO,so Jesus' claims were that of a person who was fully absorbed in the Christ consioussness,in union with God but i think definilty a completley different individual,God's Son,a perfect example.
Hi dobeable, it means that Jesus and God are one by the same Spirit.

Your correct, there is only ONE God which is the Father. When the Father first opened His mouth to accomplish His work - that word carried His character - in other words by that word we could know Him. That word is Spirit. Spirit is the BEING of the something and in this case that Spirit is the Holy Spirit which is the very BEING of the Father Himself. He made that word flesh which means then that He made His Spirit to be in flesh. It isn't OF the flesh (it doesn't cater to it) but rather it caters to God Himself who IS Spirit.

This confuses so many and thus their entire theological understanding fails as a result of not understanding this. Therefore, Jesus is God only because of the Spirit that is in Him because His nature is the SAME as His Father's because they have the same Spirit - The Holy Spirit which is the very BEING of the Father Himself. Remember Jesus said this:

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Others just Don't get it. But if you read that and what I said hopefully it makes sense to you.

Paul
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Old 05-28-2010, 09:37 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,635,700 times
Reputation: 575
Jesus had to discover that He was the Christ. I dont' believe that He just knew this but that He was as a man as we are and had to learn it. The scriptures tell us that He had to learn.

Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
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Old 05-28-2010, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,283 posts, read 20,927,906 times
Reputation: 9971
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
If Jesus was God then who was He praying to,I dont think He was praying to Himself-also Jesus was sub-servient to His father the difference between master and servant is significant,

I know Jesus said that He and the father are one,but what exactly did He mean,i think He meant one in spirit,in other words His father is Love and so is He but so are we also, that is in our original transcendental state,we are of the same quality of God but not the same quantity,just like the spark of a fire is the same quality as the fire itself,God is the whole while we are the parts.

bye saying the Father and I are one also could mean that He is in union with the father,everyone originally is in union with God and someday all will return IMO,so Jesus' claims were that of a person who was fully absorbed in the Christ consioussness,in union with God but i think definilty a completley different individual,God's Son,a perfect example.
Since I believe the Father and the Son to be two physically distinct beings, I believe that while Jesus was here on earth, His Father was in Heaven. Trinitarians may explain that differently. Think of the greeting cards you may have seen to send to a newly married couple with a wedding gift. A lot of them say something like, "Now you two are one." Well, everybody knows that the man and the woman have not physically morphed into a single being, but hopefully they are "one" with regards to all of the things that will make their marriage a success. I see the Father and the Son as having a relationship something like that -- except that their "oneness" is perfect and absolute, whereas we can only vaguely imagine a relationship of that kind.


There are many other instances in which the word "one" is used as Jesus used it in His great intercessory prayer in John 17. At the conclusion of a meeting in which various points of view are debated and a single conclusion drawn, the person conducting the meeting might say, "We are one." The 325-voice Mormon Tabernacle Choir is often said to be singing in "one voice." I think that for people to take Jesus' statement that "I and my Father are one," to mean physically one is to misunderstand the whole idea of their unity of will, purpose, mind and heart.

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Old 05-28-2010, 11:17 PM
 
20,323 posts, read 15,683,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Hi dobeable, it means that Jesus and God are one by the same Spirit.

Your correct, there is only ONE God which is the Father. When the Father first opened His mouth to accomplish His work - that word carried His character - in other words by that word we could know Him. That word is Spirit. Spirit is the BEING of the something and in this case that Spirit is the Holy Spirit which is the very BEING of the Father Himself. He made that word flesh which means then that He made His Spirit to be in flesh. It isn't OF the flesh (it doesn't cater to it) but rather it caters to God Himself who IS Spirit.

This confuses so many and thus their entire theological understanding fails as a result of not understanding this. Therefore, Jesus is God only because of the Spirit that is in Him because His nature is the SAME as His Father's because they have the same Spirit - The Holy Spirit which is the very BEING of the Father Himself. Remember Jesus said this:

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Others just Don't get it. But if you read that and what I said hopefully it makes sense to you.

Paul
To the contrary. As ILNC said, there are three separate Persons who have eternally co-existed in status quo equality. They are exactly the same in their nature. Their essence. Their attributes. In that way, they are one.

The first Person of the Trinity gave the command to create the universe. The Second Person of the trinity, Jesus Christ did the actual act of creation as per Gen. 27 with John 1:1-3,10.

The first Person of the Trinity authored the plan of salvation. Jesus Christ carried out His part of the plan which involved setting aside the independent use of His deity and taking the form of a man as per Phil. 2:5-8.He came into the world via a virgin birth, lived a sinless life and made His way to the Cross to die a substitutionary death for man. The Holy Spirit empowered the humanity of Jesus enabling Him to carry out the Fathers will. In the same manner, Christians are to rely on the enabling power of the Holy Spirit in their spiritual lives.

The humanity of Jesus Christ did not exist prior to His incarnation some two thousand years ago. His deity has eternally existed. As the God-man, the baby in the cradle was holding the universe together.

As per the true doctrine of kenosis, Jesus did not empty himself of His deity, that is a false doctrine. Rather, He voluntarily refrained from the independent use of His deity during His time on this earth. All that He did was through the ministry of God the Holy Spirit.

Jesus Christ is currently seated at the right hand of the Father in the place of honor as He waits for His enemies to be made His footstool.

As it says in Revelation 22:16, ''I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright morning star.

As God, Jesus Christ is the root or source of David and his kingdom. As a man, Jesus is the descendent of David.

All three members of the Godhead are Spirit. The name of Jehovah is applied to any one of the three Persons of the Godhead. They are each called Jehovah. Elohim is the plural name for the trinity.

God the Father is God the Father. He is not the Son or the Holy Spirit.

God the Son is God the Son. Jesus Christ. He is not the Father or the Holy Spirit.

God the Holy Spirit is God the Holy Spirit. He is not the Father or the Son.

In Isaiah 48:16 Jesus says this. ''Come near to Me, listen to this; From the first I have not spoken in secret. From the time it took place, I was there And now the Lord GOD has sent Me, and His Spirit. This is the trinity presented in this passage.

All three members of the Godhead are said by the Scriptures to indwell the body of the church-age believer.

The Indwelling of God the Father: John14:23; Eph. 4:6; Phil. 213; 1 John 4:15; 2 John 1:9.

The Indwelling of God the Son: John 14:20; John 17:22-23,26; Rom. 8:10; 2 Cor. 13:5; Gal. 2:20; Col. 1:27.

The Indwelling of God the Holy Spirit: Romans 8:11; 1 Cor 3:16; 1 Cor 6:19; 2 Cor. 6:16

The following link gives a good description of the triune nature of God.

The Trinity - What the Bible Teaches on the Tri-Unity of God
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Old 05-28-2010, 11:25 PM
 
20,323 posts, read 15,683,103 times
Reputation: 7441
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
It's the Trinity, God in three persons and yet one in essence.
It's so simple!!!

I tried to rep you ILNC, but I have to spread it around.
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Old 05-29-2010, 01:08 AM
 
3,581 posts, read 458,427 times
Reputation: 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Since I believe the Father and the Son to be two physically distinct beings, I believe that while Jesus was here on earth, His Father was in Heaven. Trinitarians may explain that differently. Think of the greeting cards you may have seen to send to a newly married couple with a wedding gift. A lot of them say something like, "Now you two are one." Well, everybody knows that the man and the woman have not physically morphed into a single being, but hopefully they are "one" with regards to all of the things that will make their marriage a success. I see the Father and the Son as having a relationship something like that -- except that their "oneness" is perfect and absolute, whereas we can only vaguely imagine a relationship of that kind.


There are many other instances in which the word "one" is used as Jesus used it in His great intercessory prayer in John 17. At the conclusion of a meeting in which various points of view are debated and a single conclusion drawn, the person conducting the meeting might say, "We are one." The 325-voice Mormon Tabernacle Choir is often said to be singing in "one voice." I think that for people to take Jesus' statement that "I and my Father are one," to mean physically one is to misunderstand the whole idea of their unity of will, purpose, mind and heart.

Kat

What I have been thinking is that the scriptures that say that Jesus came from the Father and that he is the Son of his Father give us the relationship between them -- it is not like a marriage making to different things "one" in purpose -- it is that Jesus IS the son of his Father

And we will be Sons/daughters through Christ.
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Old 05-29-2010, 01:19 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,385,346 times
Reputation: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Jesus had to discover that He was the Christ. I dont' believe that He just knew this but that He was as a man as we are and had to learn it. The scriptures tell us that He had to learn.

Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
My husband doesn't talk much about this stuff, but he did ask me one time, "when do you think he (Jesus) knew?". It got me thinking.....
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Old 05-29-2010, 03:47 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,282 posts, read 20,021,700 times
Reputation: 2110
Where is the scripture that says "Hear O Israel the Lord your God is one but 3 in essence" ?.

I think trettp is right in his explaination
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Old 05-29-2010, 07:03 AM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,933,648 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
No thanks, I'll stick with the Bible.
Jesus hit on these truth's ya know-"the kingdom of God is inside you and all around you"....
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Old 05-29-2010, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,283 posts, read 20,927,906 times
Reputation: 9971
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
No, we did not have three gods, we have one God in three persons functioning uniquely and perfectly.
Could you explain that in a little more detail? I mean, is the Father God? Is the Son God? Is the Holy Ghost God? It seems to me that if you have "three persons" and each of them is divine, you have three Gods, and that calling three "one" is really just confusing. I mean, we know that the Bible says that they are "one." The question really becomes, "In what way are they one?" Because in some way, we know that they are also three.
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