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What I have been thinking is that the scriptures that say that Jesus came from the Father and that he is the Son of his Father give us the relationship between them -- it is not like a marriage making to different things "one" in purpose -- it is that Jesus IS the son of his Father.
I definitely believe that Jesus is the Son of His Father. In fact, I probably hold to a more literal meaning of that statement than most Christians, so in that regard you're right. It's not like a marriage where two individuals of equal station come together to form a union. But I think it is like a marriage (or what a marriage should be) in terms of complete unity of will and purpose. What the Father wants, the Son wants. How the Father thinks, the Son thinks. In other words, their oneness is absolute. There is no contention between them -- ever. That's more or less what I was trying to say with the "now you two are one" thing.
I definitely believe that Jesus is the Son of His Father. In fact, I probably hold to a more literal meaning of that statement than most Christians, so in that regard you're right. It's not like a marriage where two individuals of equal station come together to form a union. But I think it is like a marriage (or what a marriage should be) in terms of complete unity of will and purpose. What the Father wants, the Son wants. How the Father thinks, the Son thinks. In other words, their oneness is absolute. There is no contention between them -- ever. That's more or less what I was trying to say with the "now you two are one" thing.
Why I do not believe in the "trinity" is that where it says that Jesus came from his Father they sort of think that means that he was always a separate entity eternally --- but I do not see how that fits with a Father/son relationship.......
I do believe in the divinity of Jesus just not in the trinity, him being a third part of separate beings/persons making up an eternal "trinity"
I do believe in the divinity of Jesus just not in the trinity, him being the third part of separate beings/persons making up an eternal "trinity"
Did you mean to say the second part or the third part? I too believe in His absolute divinity, but that He is the second of three separate beings. I would even be okay with the word "Trinity" except for its ties to the Nicene Creed, which I do not believe in.
Did you mean to say the second part or the third part? I too believe in His absolute divinity, but that He is the second of three separate beings. I would even be okay with the word "Trinity" except for its ties to the Nicene Creed, which I do not believe in.
A meant (a) third part.
I believe that he came FROM his Father literally/spiritually
In scripture when it says this day have I begotten to beget means that it was not and then it was - I believe that Jesus is of the essence of God
In John 1.1 In the beginning was THE WORD ..... which is the expression
So do you mean that you don't believe Jesus was with His Father in the beginning? Before the creation of this world?
What I notice it say IN the beginning not prior to the beginning, and else where in scripture it says that Jesus is the beginning of Gods creation doesn't it.
What I notice it say IN the beginning not prior to the beginning, and else where in scripture it says that Jesus is the beginning of Gods creation doesn't it.
I need to go out -- will be back to discuss this
Interesting. I'm the only person I know of who ever refers to a time before the beginning. I believe that Jesus was with His Father in the beginning but that He was spiritually begotten prior to the beginning. Are you saying that's what you believe too?
Interesting. I'm the only person I know of who ever refers to a time before the beginning. I believe that Jesus was with His Father in the beginning but that He was spiritually begotten prior to the beginning. Are you saying that's what you believe too?
How I see it is God is the only one prior to the beginning..... Jesus is THE WORD Gods expression, his image, that comes into the world, what God spoke in that sense he came from the Father and God begot him spiritually.
I do not have a set 'doctrine' I have thoughts on what is actually said and what it means, I made a thread on Jesus is the light of the world where I was asking what people thought but did not get much action on it, and I wonder if the spirit of man that God breathed into the dust of earth is a part of THE WORD
How I see it is God is the only one prior to the beginning..... Jesus is THE WORD Gods expression, his image, that comes into the world, what God spoke in that sense he came from the Father and God begot him spiritually.
So at what point do you believe Jesus first came into existence? Was it at His birth?
Could you explain that in a little more detail? I mean, is the Father God? Is the Son God? Is the Holy Ghost God? It seems to me that if you have "three persons" and each of them is divine, you have three Gods, and that calling three "one" is really just confusing. I mean, we know that the Bible says that they are "one." The question really becomes, "In what way are they one?" Because in some way, we know that they are also three.
Mike explained better than I can in his post #14.
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