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Old 07-13-2013, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
15,540 posts, read 6,992,023 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
My point is the law did not point us to Christ, it pointed to us missing the mark. The law which scripture says is glorious and spiritual brought condemnation due to us missing the mark. I also do not believe you need the law to come to faith in Christ.
You are correct, the love and the living in love is by far the more attractive, but the contrast is a lesson some of us need. Don't ask me why there are people who have to make rules about everything.... something about control, I think.
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Old 07-13-2013, 09:04 AM
 
19,952 posts, read 12,963,461 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
That's the point of the Law being a schoolmaster to Christ...... the focus is on the NOT Law.
The point that Paul was making in his letter to the Romans is that the Law shows us that we've all sinned. It instructs us in the fact that we cannot please God by doing good things.

That's why we need Christ. As Paul wrote in Romans 10, Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness. We are not made righteous by the Law--we are only showed to be sinners.
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Old 07-13-2013, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
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And that's why he marvelled that some of the Galatians seemed to want to go back under Law?
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Old 07-13-2013, 09:13 AM
 
14,989 posts, read 7,526,891 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
You are correct, the love and the living in love is by far the more attractive, but the contrast is a lesson some of us need. Don't ask me why there are people who have to make rules about everything.... something about control, I think.
Control, yes. But the need for control is based in fear, I believe.
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Old 07-13-2013, 09:22 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,822 posts, read 9,808,279 times
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Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
True, but God only gave the law after the children of Israel boasted that they would hold their end of the bargain. (Exod 19) Before then, God had been the source of deliverance from Egypt, treasure from Egypt, food, water, victory over the enemy, healing all their diseases, etc...all they would ever need. When they boasted, He turned on them with hardship and death at every turn.

You're right of course, the law drives us to Christ - and that's the purpose God had in mind when He gave it. But the most damaging thing in the life of a believer is to eat of that tree - it's the knowledge of good and evil to us, and it keeps our eyes on ourselves and our failures instead of His finished work.

The tree of life to us is the gospel - the good news of the new covenant of grace. We say we believe in Jesus, but do we really trust Him for our salvation? Why then do we want the 10 commandments hung in every school and courthouse in the land - does the law make anyone righteous?
I didn't know how you're intending for this to go .... solely a religious tone or social implication tone.
I addressed it on the religious not from the pro\con aspect of the 10 commandments hung in every school and courthouse in the land.

From a religious pov, there can never be an "accord" between the two.
For what it comes down to is that UR is just an umbrella solution for the "Monday morning quarterbacks" ... God should have done things differently since the Garden of Eden.

What I have yet to read is that anyone who supports UR does so because they have no qualms about something God allowed \ allows or chosen to do or not do.
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Old 07-13-2013, 09:26 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
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Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
It's a waste of time for all involved .... how so?

What that means is that it was a waste of time for Jesus to fulfill the whole law... and the Law was written by God.

If the preacher was a faithful student of the written Word, he'd then would realize that the law is used to point to Christ. Without the law, one points to any number of false christs because one will not know what you're being graced from.

A correct preacher will be a student of the written word which shows the correct relationship of Law and Gospel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
Excellent post! So why do so many of them try to put us back under Law by saying "God said it, I believe it" about matters of conscience?
A correct preacher will be a student of the written word doesn't put us back under Law, yet doesn't rule out whom the Law will be used against by God.
That was the message told by Jesus when he said:
Matthew 23:33
You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? "

Luke 21:36
Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.

Last edited by twin.spin; 07-13-2013 at 09:35 AM..
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Old 07-13-2013, 09:37 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,127 posts, read 19,958,111 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
Control, yes. But the need for control is based in fear, I believe.
True, and in accepting the message of fear that we are saved from eternal hell and we become channels of it and fear spreads like wildfire. There is no doubt that the Law is good, but being in fear of God by falling short of it was never the intention of God, being separated in our minds from that which is good is the cause of fearing God. For me personally Christ as destroyed the literal wall of seperation I believed that God put in place. As scripture says we live and move and have our being in him, but never knew it, upon realizing it we repent from believing we exist and can exist without God.
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Old 07-13-2013, 10:08 AM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,548,929 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
I didn't know how you're intending for this to go .... solely a religious tone or social implication tone.
I addressed it on the religious not from the pro\con aspect of the 10 commandments hung in every school and courthouse in the land.

From a religious pov, there can never be an "accord" between the two.
For what it comes down to is that UR is just an umbrella solution for the "Monday morning quarterbacks" ... God should have done things differently since the Garden of Eden.

What I have yet to read is that anyone who supports UR does so because they have no qualms about something God allowed \ allows or chosen to do or not do.
What I was saying is that arguing about - or even believing in ET/UR - does nothing to benefit our walk with Christ when compared to our faith in Him for salvation...

...and by "salvation", I refer to the Greek 'sozo': a complete restoration of our spirit, soul, mind, body, family, finances, etc...

Look at Abraham, who was Abram before he "saw" the realization of God's promise. The Hebrew for grace/outpouring of spirit is "Hey". Add "Hey" to Abram and Sarai and you get Abraham and Sarah - that's when Sarah got young (and hot ) enough to be caught by two different kings and put into harems.

Think about that - she's in her 70's and 80's and she's hot. You know the story, Abraham lied to Abimelek and said "she's my sister" - but God did not mention Abraham's lie, because sins aren't held against the believer under grace.

I could go on, but I'm at work.
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Old 07-13-2013, 10:31 AM
 
14,989 posts, read 7,526,891 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
True, and in accepting the message of fear that we are saved from eternal hell and we become channels of it and fear spreads like wildfire. There is no doubt that the Law is good, but being in fear of God by falling short of it was never the intention of God, being separated in our minds from that which is good is the cause of fearing God. For me personally Christ as destroyed the literal wall of seperation I believed that God put in place. As scripture says we live and move and have our being in him, but never knew it, upon realizing it we repent from believing we exist and can exist without God.
As I see it as well.
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Old 07-13-2013, 10:35 AM
 
19,952 posts, read 12,963,461 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
And that's why he marvelled that some of the Galatians seemed to want to go back under Law?
Exactly. They couldn't comprehend the fact that Christ paid for it all--and nothing they could do would benefit them, because it's only by grace alone. In fact, he said that he wished, when they were circumcising themselves, they'd slip and cut THROUGH instead of around--thereby cutting off their manhood. (Gal 5:12)
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