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Old 05-30-2010, 06:31 AM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,588,177 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
My questions to you all is:

What do you see the purpose of this life to be, exactly?
Symbolically all creation is eating of the 'forbidden' fruit - living in this shadow world of polarities: good vs. evil, light vs. darkness, love vs. fear etc.

In this state a certain character can be forged. Through this unique experience of living within time/space/limitations/futility we have an opportunity to love and forgive in a way not possible in a perfect world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
How does God fit into this purpose?
Strange question in a way. AISI the purpose fits into God, not the other way around. When the purpose is complete then God will be (manifestly) "all in all".
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
How does Jesus fit into this purpose?
The second Adam is where the mystery begins to fade (understanding where we came from and where we are going AKA: "truth). The Spirit of truth dis-closes (opens) everything up. Also known as "passing from darkness into light" [/quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Do you feel as though you are sheep, led to a slaughter, in this flesh?
Only my flesh feels as a lamb led to slaughter . Once I realized I am not simply a flesh and blood being, wow, that's freedom AND it is very humbling TO the flesh man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Has your belief on the afterlife changed your household? Your community? Your country?
People are funny. Some really embraced me when I came out about UR and some were infuriated. The angriest/most hurt person though has since sought ME out for advice .

It's a shock up front and will definitely get you fired from a ministry position in the bible belt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
What future is there for God's literal fleshly creation, since Jesus? Before Jesus?
In the strictest sense there is no before or after Jesus - only veiled and unveiled. I would say there is great hope in spite of some of the things which look really bleak.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Does knowing who and what God is, personally made a dramatic difference in your lives? IOW, are you still sheep in this flesh?
God turned me inside out when I was a homeless bum. "I" died and rose up into a new man/life. Absolutely the most dramatic thing ever (I knew UR from the start).
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
And finally, do you believe that the Kingdom of God is some far away place that can only be achieved AFTER death of this flesh, or before? And if before, how does this impact your views on politics and religion as a whole?
Agape love is basis for the kingdom AISI. Sacrifice is our example.

As far as politics I believe the earthly government's job is to procure practical everyday freedom for it's citizens and enforce the law of the land. Our job is to wrangle out what are unjust laws and expose corruption and oppression within the government, which (of course) is a huge problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
I can see know why you all believe why you do.

BUT!

How does this view on the afterlife, change within this life? IOW, what now are your views? Have you changed your thoughts on your countries? Authority? Localities? Or do you now feel isolated and alone, outside of CD? I am sure some family members have shunned you, thinking you have gone the way of the Moonies. Some probably are still stiving to save your souls, right?
Jesus spoke against an organized arrangement (kosmos) which oppressed the masses. I think you are right on about leaders (AKA: teachers) and the SYSTEMS which oppress. "World" is actually a poor translation as it means something to us which isn't specifically implied in word 'kosmos'.

So - I DON'T feel isolated or threatened by the "world" as we commonly use the term. The "world" (anti-agape systems) are threatened by me whether they are in me or in others or in governments or - where ever.

I DO feel isolated from the church unless I keep my big mouth shut about UR. Till then most Christians LOVE me to pieces, want me to be their worship leader etc. The crowd really thins quick when you start denying eternal hell.

Most people in the world respond well to being treated well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Remember, my view is not that completely different, although I do subscribe to a view of AN, simply because of the teachers, NOT the students or those who are ignorant of the Word. WOE to THOSE who cause one to stumble, just keeps ringing in my ears. Sharing views, and being passionate about them is one thing. Leading a flock is totally different, IMO.

So, concerning this flesh...

I have children. I teach them as I am taught. Love others! My children are some of the most loving children I know. Even to strangers,,,.

But my views on authority are somewhat extreme. I submit to only Him who sits NOW on the Throne, and no one else. His Law, is my Law. His teachings, are my learning. From the OT, to the NT. If there is a lack of understanding leading to wisdom, them I search it out reasoning with our Father. He gives it, as promised. But having said this, it also makes me an enemy of this world, and her systems, until such a time comes when others can see it for what it is. Nothing but a system designed since Babel to enslave the population thrugh the mind. Kinda like ET is to the UR camp concerning the afterlife. I see the battle with the spirit and the flesh, and experience this daily. Not so much concerning with the sin part of things, but rather the r(L)ight way of thinking as the Spirit leads.
This is pretty much what I'm saying. A "lost" person who acts selfishly unknowingly opposes their own selves and I just feel sorry for them. Yet I have no compassion on the system of thought which imprisons a person. AISI this darkened order/arrangement (kosmos) of fear and self preservation at the expense of others is the evil Jesus spoke of - ie: "You lay heavy burdens on men's shoulders and yet will not lift a finger to help carry them".
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
So, please be polite when answering, and I pray that you WILL answer.


Thank you Ilene for that thread. It has opened my eyes as well as yours. I just wish I could wrap my head around the false teachers and how hard Jesus was concerning them. Once that part is past, as God leads me, then all that is left is......UR. It was the ONLY reason I left that doctrine to begin with, as most of you know.
Thieves posing as God's reps are very disgusting people. They need mercy but when clinging to unmerciful ways they reap the non-mercy.
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Old 05-30-2010, 10:23 AM
 
5,766 posts, read 4,613,814 times
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Hi, I'm not being a lazy slacker or anything by saying "ditto"... but firstborn888 pretty much summed it up! Great post, bro. and "DITTO!"
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Old 05-30-2010, 12:16 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,432,041 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
Symbolically all creation is eating of the 'forbidden' fruit - living in this shadow world of polarities: good vs. evil, light vs. darkness, love vs. fear etc.

In this state a certain character can be forged. Through this unique experience of living within time/space/limitations/futility we have an opportunity to love and forgive in a way not possible in a perfect world.
Excellent post Firstborn, and yes you summed it up nicely. The point you make above has more depth than the ocean.

This world exists so we will learn how to forgive, how to protect, how to endure, how to overcome. That is why suffering is necessary. It is through suffering that things are made perfect. It is all for our character development.
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Old 05-30-2010, 02:23 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,728,093 times
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My questions to you all is:

What do you see the purpose of this life to be, exactly?

How does God fit into this purpose?

How does Jesus fit into this purpose?

It's all about love. I think another way to ask it would be, "What is the purpose of our existence?" I think of this as being similar to the purpose of having children. Do we really "need" children? There was a time when people had lots of children because they needed more help to work the farm, etc. There was a time when it was difficult to prevent pregnancy, too. But this day and age, it's much more of a choice to have children. I think we choose to do so to have someone to love, to have someone to love us in return, and someone to share our lives with. I don't think God "needed" people, but we were created out of His desire to love and receive love. So if our purpose for existing is love, then I think our purpose of life is also to love God and others as ourselves. I think the purpose of Jesus was to allow this love between God and His creation to last forever.


Do you feel as though you are sheep, led to a slaughter, in this flesh?
Not as much now as a few years ago.

Has your belief on the afterlife changed your household? Your community? Your country?
I think it has changed my household somewhat, and is changing it more, as I realize the importance of loving others as ourselves. As far as community, I haven't done anything noteworthy to change my community, but I am less judgmental than I used to be, so I'm kinder to people that I see as different from me. For example, I saw a mugshot of someone who robbed a store, was arrested, and then died in police custody of a heart attack. In the picture he looked 10-20 older than he was. I felt compassion instead of disgust for him. I am starting to feel a need to help people more, but I'm not sure what that is yet.

What future is there for God's literal fleshly creation, since Jesus? Before Jesus? That's an interesting question. I'm not sure if you mean in this life, or in the afterlife. I think of the afterlife like the Garden of Eden before the fall, but with clothes. LOL!

Does knowing who and what God is, personally made a dramatic difference in your lives? IOW, are you still sheep in this flesh?
I guess you mean, are we like the little lost sheep who leaves God? I strive to live as sinless as possible. I did before I believed in UR, and I still do. Since I know God and love Him, I would never want to disappoint Him. Not only that, when I do something wrong, I feel it in my spirit and it's not very comfortable. When people say if you believe in UR, that it's a license to sin, they don't even begin to "get it." I will say, that believing in UR has made me see that some of the legalistic rules I used to think were sins, really aren't. Also, just because someone was raised to believe in certain doctrines that I don't agree with, that doesn't mean they aren't true believers.

And finally, do you believe that the Kingdom of God is some far away place that can only be achieved AFTER death of this flesh, or before? And if before, how does this impact your views on politics and religion as a whole?
John 17:3 tells us, "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." So, I see the Kingdom of God as both - beginning now in the life, once we know Him, and carrying on into eternity. For me, I'm not sure this has an effect on my view of politics or religion as a whole.
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Old 05-30-2010, 03:39 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,432,041 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Excellent post Firstborn, and yes you summed it up nicely. The point you make above has more depth than the ocean.

This world exists so we will learn how to forgive, how to protect, how to endure, how to overcome. That is why suffering is necessary. It is through suffering that things are made perfect. It is all for our character development.

Romans 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. 3Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4perseverance, character; and character, hope.

Powerful stuff. Without suffering, we would not have perseverance, character, or hope.

People ask that all the time - if everyone is saved (aka UR), why do we have to go through this life... what is the point of it all? What is the point of all the evil and suffering in this world? The above verse tells us why.
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Old 05-30-2010, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,396,349 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
My questions to you all is:

What do you see the purpose of this life to be, exactly?
We are learning how to love, or we are supposed to be learning how to love even in the middle of the darkness, confusion, and chaos. LOVE is THAT powerful. It can conquer every bit of darkness out there. The wicked seem to prosper here, but everyone will reap what they sow in another realm, so I keep my focus on the love and keep on going no matter what. Whatever it is that we are doing here on this planet is affecting something "out there." I don't quite know how yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
How does God fit into this purpose?
God says he is love. He is allowing us to wander around in the dark (so he can have mercy on us), but those that want to love can do so. They will become his children of light.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
How does Jesus fit into this purpose?
Jesus became human for us so we can see how love works in the real world. How does it treat others? What does it want? He showed us the epitome of love even while the world was in the dark with it's pagan ways and it's pagan worship of thunderbolt-throwing gods.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Do you feel as though you are sheep, led to a slaughter, in this flesh?
If the world is in the dark and it can't understand the light, the more light you are given, the more the world will fight you. So, in a sense, you are led to the slaughter. Jesus was slaughtered by this world. We don't have to suffer quite like that, but suffering is what happens when the light (love, joy, peace, gentleness, patients, kindness) walks around in the valley of death (war, violence, envy, pride, selfishness, etc.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Has your belief on the afterlife changed your household? Your community? Your country?
I have become a much kinder person. Quiet. I don't want to hit the red button any longer. I see there is a much bigger plan that is going to change everybody ever born on this planet, not just a few.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
What future is there for God's literal fleshly creation, since Jesus? Before Jesus?
I have been thinking about this quite a bit lately. I don't have an answer right now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Does knowing who and what God is, personally made a dramatic difference in your lives? IOW, are you still sheep in this flesh?
If I did not know that there was something much higher and MUCH more loving than any spirit down here, I would have become a VERY dark individual. I fight that darkness everyday. Loving others even in the dark makes this world just a little bit sunnier. And we can use all the light we can get.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
And finally, do you believe that the Kingdom of God is some far away place that can only be achieved AFTER death of this flesh, or before? And if before, how does this impact your views on politics and religion as a whole?
I believe that the Kingdom of God resides in individuals. We see throught the glass darkly right now, but after death we will truly SEE! I don't put any faith in humanity, so I am not interested in it's systems; religious, political, or economical. I believe there will be an entirely new system that takes it's place one day and there will be no countries, no religion, no wars.



Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
How does this view on the afterlife, change within this life? IOW, what now are your views? Have you changed your thoughts on your countries? Authority? Localities? Or do you now feel isolated and alone, outside of CD? I am sure some family members have shunned you, thinking you have gone the way of the Moonies. Some probably are still stiving to save your souls, right?
I was never patriotic. I believe that my allegiance is to a much higher kingdom. I feel like I am an alien no matter where I am on this planet. I do not feel at home anywhere. Family members shun each other, period, so nothing new there. Nobody is trying to save my soul except maybe the people on City-Data.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
I have children. I teach them as I am taught. Love others! My children are some of the most loving children I know. Even to strangers,,,.
I teach my children that the ONLY thing that matters in the end is love. It does not matter if you conquer this planet or can speak languages that nobody on this planet has ever heard before. If you try to take on this Universe without love you are nothing. End of story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
But my views on authority are somewhat extreme. I submit to only Him who sits NOW on the Throne, and no one else. His Law, is my Law. His teachings, are my learning. It also makes me an enemy of this world, and her systems, until such a time comes when others can see it for what it is. Nothing but a system designed since Babel to enslave the population thrugh the mind.
I also submit to higher laws. This present system in place will fail and can only coerce and threaten people into peace. It uses war and manipulation to put the population of this planet into their place, all the while promising peace. It has enslaved everyone here while promising hope for the future when there isn't any.

Babylon is the system in place right now, and it will come down.
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Old 05-30-2010, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
13,477 posts, read 21,278,472 times
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The purpose in this life is to prepare for the next by developing the love of God, the actions of Christ and allowing the Holy Spirit to be your guide along this path back to God..and to leave good seeds along the way for those seeking the same..
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