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Old 05-29-2010, 12:12 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,380,527 times
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My questions to you all is:

What do you see the purpose of this life to be, exactly?

How does God fit into this purpose?

How does Jesus fit into this purpose?


Do you feel as though you are sheep, led to a slaughter, in this flesh?

Has your belief on the afterlife changed your household? Your community? Your country?

What future is there for God's literal fleshly creation, since Jesus? Before Jesus?

Does knowing who and what God is, personally made a dramatic difference in your lives? IOW, are you still sheep in this flesh?

And finally, do you believe that the Kingdom of God is some far away place that can only be achieved AFTER death of this flesh, or before? And if before, how does this impact your views on politics and religion as a whole?


Now, the reason I am asking these questions. I have just spent the ENTIRE morning reading through Ilene's questions regarding Universalism. It has dramatically impacted my soul, deep deep within. I can see know why you all believe why you do. I can also see this love pouring out of your souls. IOW, I see the Spirit leading when you all type out your responses. They are heartfelt, passionate, and caring, from deep within. I get it!

BUT!

How does this view on the afterlife, change within this life? IOW, what now are your views? Have you changed your thoughts on your countries? Authority? Localities? Or do you now feel isolated and alone, outside of CD? I am sure some family members have shunned you, thinking you have gone the way of the Moonies. Some probably are still stiving to save your souls, right?

Remember, my view is not that completely different, although I do subscribe to a view of AN, simply because of the teachers, NOT the students or those who are ignorant of the Word. WOE to THOSE who cause one to stumble, just keeps ringing in my ears. Sharing views, and being passionate about them is one thing. Leading a flock is totally different, IMO.

So, concerning this flesh...

I have children. I teach them as I am taught. Love others! My children are some of the most loving children I know. Even to strangers,,,.

But my views on authority are somewhat extreme. I submit to only Him who sits NOW on the Throne, and no one else. His Law, is my Law. His teachings, are my learning. From the OT, to the NT. If there is a lack of understanding leading to wisdom, them I search it out reasoning with our Father. He gives it, as promised. But having said this, it also makes me an enemy of this world, and her systems, until such a time comes when others can see it for what it is. Nothing but a system designed since Babel to enslave the population thrugh the mind. Kinda like ET is to the UR camp concerning the afterlife. I see the battle with the spirit and the flesh, and experience this daily. Not so much concerning with the sin part of things, but rather the r(L)ight way of thinking as the Spirit leads.

So, please be polite when answering, and I pray that you WILL answer.


Thank you Ilene for that thread. It has opened my eyes as well as yours. I just wish I could wrap my head around the false teachers and how hard Jesus was concerning them. Once that part is past, as God leads me, then all that is left is......UR. It was the ONLY reason I left that doctrine to begin with, as most of you know.
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Old 05-29-2010, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,297,289 times
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It seems like the title should be directed at UR believers only....just an observation.
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Old 05-29-2010, 12:28 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,768,019 times
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Oh hallelujah I'm soooo glad you read that thread Hot!!! There was some real, pure outpourings and it made me understand so much more where the universalists are coming from!! I had to drop the hardcore, stubborn, ingrained teachings of ET and really stop and listen to what they were saying. I wish everyone posting here would take the time to read the whole thread.

You've really asked some serious questions and I don't know that I have all the answers (like I thought I did) anymore. I'm still searching and seeking, but I HAVE had a change of heart, mind, body and spirit since believing that God's plan is totally different than what I had previously believed all of those years. It's not anyone's doing but my own and God's. I can't really say when I started to want to hear more although it wasn't that long ago and I have COMPLETELY changed my way of thinking and believing. And that thread really locked it in.

I would encourage anyone who is wanting to know more about the universalist perspective to read that thread. If nothing else it may convince these hardcore ETer's that it is certainly not a doctrine of the devil. It's far from that and it's full of the love that Jesus taught.
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Old 05-29-2010, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,409,656 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
My questions to you all is:

What do you see the purpose of this life to be, exactly?
Anthony Robbins said it best, IMO - “Live life fully while you're here. Experience everything. Take care of yourself and your friends. Have fun, be crazy, be weird. Go out and screw up! You're going to anyway, so you might as well enjoy the process. Take the opportunity to learn from your mistakes: find the cause of your problem and eliminate it. Don't try to be perfect; just be an excellent example of being human.”

Quote:
How does God fit into this purpose?
God wants all his children to live life fully... in love.
Quote:
How does Jesus fit into this purpose?
Jesus taught how to live fully in love.


Quote:
Do you feel as though you are sheep, led to a slaughter, in this flesh?
NO.. I don't feel like that at all. Without our senses we couldn't truly enjoy life and all it offers.

Quote:
Has your belief on the afterlife changed your household? Your community? Your country?
It has had a huge impact on my marriage... I can now love my husband despite the silly (trying to be nice LOL) things he does.

Quote:
What future is there for God's literal fleshly creation, since Jesus? Before Jesus?
Live and learn. That is our future. Passing on our knowledge to future generations. That knowledge IMO is that Love conquers all. Firstborn stated that killing off your enemy is as easy as loving them... I believe that.

Quote:
Does knowing who and what God is, personally made a dramatic difference in your lives? IOW, are you still sheep in this flesh?
I am not sure I understand the question...

Quote:
And finally, do you believe that the Kingdom of God is some far away place that can only be achieved AFTER death of this flesh, or before? And if before, how does this impact your views on politics and religion as a whole?
No the kingdom of God or kingdom of Heaven is during LIFE.. looking forward to death is not God's intention IMO. The bible has very little to say about after death.


Quote:
Now, the reason I am asking these questions. I have just spent the ENTIRE morning reading through Ilene's questions regarding Universalism. It has dramatically impacted my soul, deep deep within. I can see know why you all believe why you do. I can also see this love pouring out of your souls. IOW, I see the Spirit leading when you all type out your responses. They are heartfelt, passionate, and caring, from deep within. I get it!

BUT!

How does this view on the afterlife, change within this life? IOW, what now are your views? Have you changed your thoughts on your countries? Authority? Localities? Or do you now feel isolated and alone, outside of CD? I am sure some family members have shunned you, thinking you have gone the way of the Moonies. Some probably are still stiving to save your souls, right?

Remember, my view is not that completely different, although I do subscribe to a view of AN, simply because of the teachers, NOT the students or those who are ignorant of the Word. WOE to THOSE who cause one to stumble, just keeps ringing in my ears. Sharing views, and being passionate about them is one thing. Leading a flock is totally different, IMO.

So, concerning this flesh...

I have children. I teach them as I am taught. Love others! My children are some of the most loving children I know. Even to strangers,,,.

But my views on authority are somewhat extreme. I submit to only Him who sits NOW on the Throne, and no one else. His Law, is my Law. His teachings, are my learning. From the OT, to the NT. If there is a lack of understanding leading to wisdom, them I search it out reasoning with our Father. He gives it, as promised. But having said this, it also makes me an enemy of this world, and her systems, until such a time comes when others can see it for what it is. Nothing but a system designed since Babel to enslave the population thrugh the mind. Kinda like ET is to the UR camp concerning the afterlife. I see the battle with the spirit and the flesh, and experience this daily. Not so much concerning with the sin part of things, but rather the r(L)ight way of thinking as the Spirit leads.

So, please be polite when answering, and I pray that you WILL answer.


Thank you Ilene for that thread. It has opened my eyes as well as yours. I just wish I could wrap my head around the false teachers and how hard Jesus was concerning them. Once that part is past, as God leads me, then all that is left is......UR. It was the ONLY reason I left that doctrine to begin with, as most of you know.
I take it to heart that apart from the Law there is no sin. Jesus fulfilled the law and said the whole law hinged on loving God and one another. That makes more sense to me than trying to follow laws simply because they are laws or to prevent some horrible afterlife (that may or may not even exist). God seems to focus on the heart not the actions. If your conscience is clean you are more likely to do the right thing. Also it is about being set free from the things that burden you... Cast your cares upon him.

Great Post HOT!
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Old 05-29-2010, 12:59 PM
 
Location: RV Park
7,544 posts, read 11,581,022 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
My questions to you all is:

What do you see the purpose of this life to be, exactly?
Depends on who you are - those chosen to be sons are taking up their crosses (being refined) earlier than the rest.

Quote:
How does God fit into this purpose?
Obvious - see above

Quote:
How does Jesus fit into this purpose?
He is both the pattern and the prize. His path to Calvary shows us what is required of us. "You shall indeed drink of the cup, and be baptised as I am." (Mark 10:39) The life of the Father was in Him, and it shall be in us too.


Quote:
Do you feel as though you are sheep, led to a slaughter, in this flesh?
More like a tree given that others can can find rest in - from the tiny mustard seed.

Quote:
Has your belief on the afterlife changed your household? Your community? Your country?
Household, yes - working on the rest.

Quote:
What future is there for God's literal fleshly creation, since Jesus? Before Jesus?
Scripture tells us that up until now, it's been groaning and travailing - but the manifestation of the sons will free them. Not God with them - God in them.

Quote:
Does knowing who and what God is, personally made a dramatic difference in your lives? IOW, are you still sheep in this flesh?
Pressing on to the high calling is the goal, letting Him crucify the old man in me and refill me with Himself - that's the name of the game.

Quote:
And finally, do you believe that the Kingdom of God is some far away place that can only be achieved AFTER death of this flesh, or before? And if before, how does this impact your views on politics and religion as a whole?
I believe the Kingdom is a state, not a place. Jesus said the pure in heart will see God - we interpret that as a future event, but as He works righteousness in us we see Him more and more - ultimately in everything. This is the Tree of Life; not judging the world in terms of good and bad, right and wrong - but knowing that the Holy One is in control of it all, and working all things after the council of His own will.

Quote:
How does this view on the afterlife, change within this life? IOW, what now are your views? Have you changed your thoughts on your countries? Authority? Localities? Or do you now feel isolated and alone, outside of CD? I am sure some family members have shunned you, thinking you have gone the way of the Moonies. Some probably are still stiving to save your souls, right?
I have a coworker who knows the bible cover to cover and believes Jesus is the way, truth and life - a real Christian, who is ET. He says he can't find one thing that differs in our belief - that I display a love for the Lord that few he's seen have done - it's just the PLAN we disagree on...but he's starting to come around...

Quote:
But my views on authority are somewhat extreme. I submit to only Him who sits NOW on the Throne, and no one else. His Law, is my Law. His teachings, are my learning. From the OT, to the NT. If there is a lack of understanding leading to wisdom, them I search it out reasoning with our Father. He gives it, as promised. But having said this, it also makes me an enemy of this world, and her systems, until such a time comes when others can see it for what it is. Nothing but a system designed since Babel to enslave the population thrugh the mind. Kinda like ET is to the UR camp concerning the afterlife. I see the battle with the spirit and the flesh, and experience this daily. Not so much concerning with the sin part of things, but rather the r(L)ight way of thinking as the Spirit leads.
I share your feelings.
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Old 05-29-2010, 02:22 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,380,527 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
It seems like the title should be directed at UR believers only....just an observation.
No, as I really wanted ALL points of view. Including yours, since you believe in neither ET, UR, or AN. So, what do you believe, and like the questions above, how has it impacted your life??
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Old 05-29-2010, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,297,289 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
No, as I really wanted ALL points of view. Including yours, since you believe in neither ET, UR, or AN. So, what do you believe, and like the questions above, how has it impacted your life??
I believe in ET based on Revelation 21, which is referred to in Revelation 20. The Second Death.

It impacts my life definitely, however, these things are up to God IMO. I have friends and family that have died and have rejected the faith, but like I said, these things are up to God, aren't they not?

Our job is to persevere and spread the message.
Because of the message we spread, God elects.
His work is in us, the church. If God chose someone, and I can't get the message to them, He gets someone else, somehow, some way.
This kind of trust lay in faith.
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Old 05-29-2010, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,409,656 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
I believe in ET based on Revelation 21, which is referred to in Revelation 20. The Second Death.

It impacts my life definitely, however, these things are up to God IMO. I have friends and family that have died and have rejected the faith, but like I said, these things are up to God, aren't they not?

Our job is to persevere and spread the message.
Because of the message we spread, God elects.
His work is in us, the church. If God chose someone, and I can't get the message to them, He gets someone else, somehow, some way.
This kind of trust lay in faith.
Since you believe that Revelation is past.. does that mean people are in the LOF right now?
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Old 05-30-2010, 02:07 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,297,289 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Since you believe that Revelation is past.. does that mean people are in the LOF right now?
Yes, but not people, feeling physical pain. Disembodied spirits, aware they are separated from God. Satan and his minions are tormented, but is Death and Hades tormented? No...they are just thrown into the lake of fire. It doesn't say anymore. But what we do know, is "eternal destruction" is denoted for the Apostate Jews and those who deny Christ's message...does this mean eternal torment, or simply, destroyed eternally? I tend to lean to the latter....however I also believe, based on really nothing, but just a spiritual hunch, although some here could exegete that hunch that justice is served for those on various levels of evils performed in their life as people, and then poof...they're gone.
Forever. I am more or less in between ET and Annihilation. Neither of them are completely correct IMO, but I am sure, as the scriptures speak otherwise, that UR is definitely wrong.

I believe the second death is what is otherwise known as covenantal death. Since Death and Hades, in the Full Preterist view, represents the Old Covenant "power" over the saints, now in Christ we have that victory over this death/separation from God. The "strength of sin" was thrown into the lake of fire, which this action itself is called the second death. Those who choose to live outside of the New Jerusalem, will suffer the same demise as the old "order," or old "heavens and earth." The are still bound by the strength of sin.

In other words, those who choose NOT Christ, are still bound to the laws of the Old Heavens and Earth, where death results from sin, and this Old Heavens and Earth was thrown into the lake of fire, and such is the fate of those in transgression of Christ.

Last edited by sciotamicks; 05-30-2010 at 02:21 AM..
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Old 05-30-2010, 04:16 AM
 
Location: Germany
1,652 posts, read 1,714,587 times
Reputation: 845
I will answer some questions:

Quote:
What do you see the purpose of this life to be, exactly?
I think to learn, about good and evil e.g. as a preparation for the world to come, I also think life is a purpose in itself, to exist, to breath, to feel...

Quote:
How does God fit into this purpose?
God created everything and nothing can ultimateley happen and exist outside His will

Quote:
How does Jesus fit into this purpose?
God determined Jesus to save mankind from eternal death (i.e. annihilation) and to reconcile the universe, to His glory.

Quote:
Has your belief on the afterlife changed your household? Your community? Your country?
My parents have a slightly different belief than I have, generally only few people share my belief, so my belief has no influence on society.

Quote:
What future is there for God's literal fleshly creation, since Jesus? Before Jesus?
As God knows the outcome of all things, God ever knew the future, which is the reconciliation of the universe (Col. 1:20), therefore there is only one future that ever was the same. All mankind will be saved (1Tim. 4:10)

Quote:
Does knowing who and what God is, personally made a dramatic difference in your lives? IOW, are you still sheep in this flesh?
I do not know if I know God but I try to live a righteous life, I must admit that some of my beliefs are rather Jewish than Christian. It was honestly not my faith that changed me but meeting a girl I loved very much, which made me investigating the subject of everlasting torment, as she was in involved with the occult and I have been in sorrow about her, now I have peace in this issue.

Quote:
And finally, do you believe that the Kingdom of God is some far away place that can only be achieved AFTER death of this flesh, or before? And if before, how does this impact your views on politics and religion as a whole?
I think paradise and gehenna can be both in this world and the world to come, but the real paradise is only in the world to come.

I have no interest in politics and I do not like organized religion as the Catholic Church e.g., I think politics and religion should be seperated, things like gay marriages should NOT be allowed, but people should also NOT to be forced to obey "religious laws".

Quote:
How does this view on the afterlife, change within this life? IOW, what now are your views? Have you changed your thoughts on your countries? Authority? Localities?
I think justness is a purpose in itself, no matter if there is an afterlife at all or not, I do not mind much about the afterlife, but I hope to see beloved ones again.

I'm German, I think there are countries and races in this world and enmity between them; but there are no countries no races and no enmity in the world to come. These things have no future in the world to come. Wether the world to come is a physical or solely spiritual realm I do not know.

What I believe is my own faith, these things might differ from what other "universalists" believe, I avoid to call myself "universalist" because it might be mixed up with "Unitarian universalism", all Christian universalists I know personally have nothing in common with Unitarian universalism, many of them even believe in the trinity, which I don't do.
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