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Old 05-29-2010, 09:21 PM
 
20,292 posts, read 15,633,754 times
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People have difficulty understanding God's triune nature. And because of their inability to comprehend the trinity, many people, rather than simply believing what the Bible has to say about it, choose to reject the reality of God's nature. They can't make sense of the fact that with God, 1+1+1=1. But God is not a physical being. He is Spirit. If you shine 3 different lights at the same spot on a wall, you have one light. Each light is separate, yet one. God's nature, or attributes, or essence is His light. His essence consists of His Sovereignty, Righteousness, Justice, Love, Eternal Life, Omniscience, Omnipresence, Omnipotence, Immutability, and Veracity. God is One in Essence. Each of the three members of the Godhead possess the exact same characteristics or essence.

But God is shown in the Scriptures to be three different Persons. There's a hymnal called 'Holy, Holy, Holy', which contains the phrase, 'God in three Persons, blessed Trinity'. And so He is.

Here's the hymnal.

Holy, Holy, Holy


God is one:

Deuteronomy 6:4 'Hear, O Israel! The LORD IS OUR God, the LORD is one.

Deuteronomy 6:4 'shmo ishral ieue alei-nu ieue achd

Deuteronomy 6:4 'hear you Israel Yahweh Elohim-of us Yahweh one.

Elohim is plural and is yet said to be One. Achd or Echad is a unified One. Anti-Trinitarians deny this, but what else is new.

God is three Persons.

God the Father is God. This is not in dispute, so no more need be said on that. God the Father Himself declares that Jesus Christ is God.

Psalms 45:6 Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Thy kingdom. 7) Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated wickedness; Therefore God, Thy God, has anointed Thee With the oil of joy above Thy fellows.

Compared with Hebrews 1:8-9...

Hebrews 1:8 But of the Son He says, ''Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom. 9) ''Thou hast loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Thy God, hath anointed Thee with the oil of gladness above Thy companions.''


John 1:1 declares that Jesus Christ is God. Jesus Christ is the Word, and the Word is declared to be God.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2) He was in the beginning with God.

God was with God. John 1:1 declares unequivocally the deity of Christ. So you don't understand it. Will you therefore dispute the Scriptures own testimony of Jesus Christ's deity? Will you?


The Holy Spirit is shown to be not merely a force or an influence, but a separate Person of the Godhead.

Jesus said in John 14:16 ''And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17) that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you, and will be in you.

The Holy Spirit is shown in John 14:16 to be a Person. Spoken of by use of personal pronouns (which are also present in the Greek). Jesus makes it clear that the Holy Spirit is not the Father. The Holy Spirit is ANOTHER helper who is Sent BY the Father.


Acts 5:3 But Peter said, ''Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit, and to keep back some of the price of the land? 4) ''While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men, but to God.''

The Holy Spirit is declared by Peter to be God.


The following passages show the communication within the Godhead.

Gen 1:26 Then God said, ''Let US make man in Our image, according to Our likeness...

Gen 3:22 Then the LORD God said, ''Behold, the man has become like one of Us...

Gen 11:7 Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

Isa 6:8 Then I heard the voice of the LORD, saying, ''Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us?'' Then I said, ''Here am I. Send Me!''

In the preceding 4 passages, God is not using the royal 'WE'. Nor is He addressing the angels. The angels had no part in the creative act.


Isa 48:16 ''Come near to Me, and listen to this: From the first I have not spoken in secret, From the time it took place, I was there. And now the LORD GOD has sent Me, and His Spirit.''

In Isa. 48:16, it is Jesus Christ Himself who is speaking. The three Persons of the Godhead are mentioned in this passage.


The following passages show all three Persons of the Godhead within the passage.


1 Peter 1:2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in fullest measure.

Matthew 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.


Matthew 3:16 And after being baptized, Jesus went up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon Him, 17) and behold, a voice out of the heavens, saying, ''This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.''

The passages which have been shown here are only some of the many passages which demonstrate that God is a triune being, and that Jesus Christ is God.

The Scriptures declare it. Will you deny it simply because you don't understand it?


I usually provide some resources with my posts and here are two for those who are interested.

What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?

Elohim = Plural Gods, Polytheism?


In this post I was focusing on the tri-unity of God. I didn't make any reference to the humanity of Christ. Since His incarnation some 2000 years ago, Jesus Christ has been and will forevermore be the unique Person of the universe. He is the God-man. Eternal and infinite God and true humanity in one Person forever.

Last edited by Mike555; 05-29-2010 at 09:49 PM..
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Old 05-29-2010, 09:29 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,260 posts, read 20,859,174 times
Reputation: 9950
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
People have difficulty understanding God's triune nature. And because of their inability to comprehend the trinity, many people, rather than simply believing what the Bible has to say about it, choose to reject the reality of God's nature. They can't make sense of the fact that with God, 1+1+1=1. But God is not a physical being. He is Spirit.
Okay, I have a question, Mike. I know trinitarians believe that the Father and the Holy Ghost are spirits only, but most trinitarians I've talked to in the past have said that they believe Jesus Christ to have a body, an immortal as opposed to a mortal body, but a body nevertheless, a physical form which, if we were to see Him, we would recognize Him as the Savior. They believe Him to have ascended into Heaven in bodily form and believe that He will return to earth in bodily form as well. Since this is clearly scriptural, at what point do you believe that Christ shed His body, and where is it now?

By the way, I thought the scriptures you posted were very good. I actually agree with much of what you've said. I just don't see any of what the scriptures say about God being summarized in the Nicene or Athanasian Creeds. If trinitarians could stick to quoting the Bible when explaining God (as you did), they'd have far fewer problems than they do by bringing the creedal language into the equation. Seriously, the Nicene Creed isn't too awfully bad, but the Athanasian Creed is enough to give a person a migrane. The first Christians seemed to get along well enough without all of that neo-platonic rhetoric to confuse the issue. The Bible explains God far better than any creed ever has.

Last edited by Katzpur; 05-29-2010 at 09:42 PM..
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Old 05-29-2010, 09:33 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,416 posts, read 29,529,737 times
Reputation: 29917
Great post Mike! The Bible confirms that each member of the Trinity is equally God. All three are focused on their plan for mankind: salvation, transformation, and the glory for God.
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Old 05-29-2010, 09:40 PM
 
20,292 posts, read 15,633,754 times
Reputation: 7403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Okay, I have a question, Mike. I know trinitarians believe that the Father and the Holy Ghost are spirits only, but most trinitarians I've talked to in the past have said that they believe Jesus Christ to have a body, not a mortal body, but a body nevertheless. They believe Him to have ascended into Heaven in bodily form and believe that He will return to earth in bodily form as well. Since this is clearly scriptural, at what point do you believe that Christ shed His body, and where is it now?
Didn't you ask this once before? I was simply refering to the tri-unity of God in this post. I wasn't refering to the humanity of Christ. Since His incarnation some 2000 years ago, Jesus Christ has been and will forevermore be the unique Person of the universe. He is the God-man. Eternal and infinite God and true humanity in one Person forever. I will now go back and add an addendum to the post to that effect.
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Old 05-29-2010, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,260 posts, read 20,859,174 times
Reputation: 9950
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Didn't you ask this once before? I was simply refering to the tri-unity of God in this post. I wasn't refering to the humanity of Christ. Since His incarnation some 2000 years ago, Jesus Christ has been and will forevermore be the unique Person of the universe. He is the God-man. Eternal and infinite God and true humanity in one Person forever. I will now go back and add an addendum to the post to that effect.
I may have done. I can't remember. It's just that when you said they were all spirit, it confused me.
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Old 05-30-2010, 06:39 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,722 posts, read 47,472,880 times
Reputation: 17565
Such an important and pivotal doctrine, and yet the Bible never lays it out and explains it. What a shame.
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Old 05-30-2010, 06:54 AM
 
41 posts, read 36,148 times
Reputation: 23
I love god ,
i love jesus
i love the holy spirit.
all are love.
Love love love
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Old 05-30-2010, 06:55 PM
 
3,259 posts, read 5,095,370 times
Reputation: 1470
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
People have difficulty understanding God's triune nature. And because of their inability to comprehend the trinity, many people, rather than simply believing what the Bible has to say about it, choose to reject the reality of God's nature. They can't make sense of the fact that with God, 1+1+1=1. But God is not a physical being. He is Spirit. If you shine 3 different lights at the same spot on a wall, you have one light. Each light is separate, yet one. God's nature, or attributes, or essence is His light. His essence consists of His Sovereignty, Righteousness, Justice, Love, Eternal Life, Omniscience, Omnipresence, Omnipotence, Immutability, and Veracity. God is One in Essence. Each of the three members of the Godhead possess the exact same characteristics or essence.

But God is shown in the Scriptures to be three different Persons. There's a hymnal called 'Holy, Holy, Holy', which contains the phrase, 'God in three Persons, blessed Trinity'. And so He is.

Here's the hymnal.

Holy, Holy, Holy


God is one:

Deuteronomy 6:4 'Hear, O Israel! The LORD IS OUR God, the LORD is one.

Deuteronomy 6:4 'shmo ishral ieue alei-nu ieue achd

Deuteronomy 6:4 'hear you Israel Yahweh Elohim-of us Yahweh one.

Elohim is plural and is yet said to be One. Achd or Echad is a unified One. Anti-Trinitarians deny this, but what else is new.

God is three Persons.

God the Father is God. This is not in dispute, so no more need be said on that. God the Father Himself declares that Jesus Christ is God.

Psalms 45:6 Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Thy kingdom. 7) Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated wickedness; Therefore God, Thy God, has anointed Thee With the oil of joy above Thy fellows.

Compared with Hebrews 1:8-9...

Hebrews 1:8 But of the Son He says, ''Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom. 9) ''Thou hast loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Thy God, hath anointed Thee with the oil of gladness above Thy companions.''


John 1:1 declares that Jesus Christ is God. Jesus Christ is the Word, and the Word is declared to be God.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2) He was in the beginning with God.

God was with God. John 1:1 declares unequivocally the deity of Christ. So you don't understand it. Will you therefore dispute the Scriptures own testimony of Jesus Christ's deity? Will you?


The Holy Spirit is shown to be not merely a force or an influence, but a separate Person of the Godhead.

Jesus said in John 14:16 ''And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17) that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you, and will be in you.

The Holy Spirit is shown in John 14:16 to be a Person. Spoken of by use of personal pronouns (which are also present in the Greek). Jesus makes it clear that the Holy Spirit is not the Father. The Holy Spirit is ANOTHER helper who is Sent BY the Father.


Acts 5:3 But Peter said, ''Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit, and to keep back some of the price of the land? 4) ''While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men, but to God.''

The Holy Spirit is declared by Peter to be God.


The following passages show the communication within the Godhead.

Gen 1:26 Then God said, ''Let US make man in Our image, according to Our likeness...

Gen 3:22 Then the LORD God said, ''Behold, the man has become like one of Us...

Gen 11:7 Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

Isa 6:8 Then I heard the voice of the LORD, saying, ''Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us?'' Then I said, ''Here am I. Send Me!''

In the preceding 4 passages, God is not using the royal 'WE'. Nor is He addressing the angels. The angels had no part in the creative act.


Isa 48:16 ''Come near to Me, and listen to this: From the first I have not spoken in secret, From the time it took place, I was there. And now the LORD GOD has sent Me, and His Spirit.''

In Isa. 48:16, it is Jesus Christ Himself who is speaking. The three Persons of the Godhead are mentioned in this passage.


The following passages show all three Persons of the Godhead within the passage.


1 Peter 1:2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in fullest measure.

Matthew 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.


Matthew 3:16 And after being baptized, Jesus went up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon Him, 17) and behold, a voice out of the heavens, saying, ''This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.''

The passages which have been shown here are only some of the many passages which demonstrate that God is a triune being, and that Jesus Christ is God.

The Scriptures declare it. Will you deny it simply because you don't understand it?


I usually provide some resources with my posts and here are two for those who are interested.

What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?

Elohim = Plural Gods, Polytheism?


In this post I was focusing on the tri-unity of God. I didn't make any reference to the humanity of Christ. Since His incarnation some 2000 years ago, Jesus Christ has been and will forevermore be the unique Person of the universe. He is the God-man. Eternal and infinite God and true humanity in one Person forever.
Excellent man. The word Trinity isn't in the bible, yet the bible makes it quite clear that God is triune--thus we use the word Trinity to explain His being.
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Old 05-30-2010, 06:58 PM
 
3,259 posts, read 5,095,370 times
Reputation: 1470
Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
Such an important and pivotal doctrine, and yet the Bible never lays it out and explains it. What a shame.
I have to agree with you, and my take on it, either you belive it or not. That's what faith is all about. The same applies to Jesus Christ as well. The bible doesn't directly teach that he was created, nor does it teach that he was not. We draw the conclusion looking at the evidence from Scripture as we all interpret it, thus the many different interpretations of who Jesus is.
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Old 05-30-2010, 07:14 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,416 posts, read 29,529,737 times
Reputation: 29917
Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
Such an important and pivotal doctrine, and yet the Bible never lays it out and explains it. What a shame.
If you are a Christian, listening to the Holy Spirit, you know that the Bible is very clear about the Trinity.
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