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View Poll Results: Do you believe in a 3-in-1 God?
Yes 45 57.69%
No 33 42.31%
Voters: 78. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-08-2010, 12:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Bingo! There are other Orthodox Christian beliefs that I do not believe in. Not all Christians are 'Orthodox'. The word 'Trinity' is not found in the scriptures. Jesus said, "I go to my God and your God..." Jesus also taught us to pray (not to him), but to our Father in heaven. Jesus submitted himself to do the Father's will - not his own will. I don't see how this adds up to a belief in the trinity. Granted, I do think that song, "Holy, Holy, Holy..." is pretty and I have been known to sing along with it.

To me, the more important question is: "Is it important to God that we believe He is a trinity?" Is God grieved if we find the concept a bit confusing. Would our heavenly Father want his children fighting over these kinds of topics?

Heartsong
I'm not fighting ... Im just discussing the mystery of Christ.

I believe Christ is God and is certainly divine. If you don't that is up to you, we will all know eventually one way or the other.

God bless friend.
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Old 06-08-2010, 01:10 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Christ did not own the universe per say until resurrected. Satan is the god of this world.

When God created Adam and Eve he gave the earth to Adam, when Adam fell Satan usurped him through sin and has been the God of the world ever since

When Christ resurrected he claimed authority but has not as of yet claimed the throne of David and begun his earthly rule over the nations. that is if you believe in an at least partial futurist eschatology.
Yep, on the partial futurist. And I can see how the kingdoms will or have become his again, after having "lost" them, but I STILL don't understand how the phrase "these kingdoms can be yours" works.

If he (God-Jesus) already knew he was going to die and "claim" them again, why would that temptation matter?? And, if (God-Jesus)HAD given in??

Just pondering.......
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Old 06-08-2010, 01:37 AM
 
Location: Vancouver, BC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave View Post
That's not what the scripture says. Read it again.
"I have come that they may have Life, and that they may have it more abundantly." (John 10:10) Jesus has received His Divine Love in the highest degree; as a result, of all human souls, Jesus is closest to God, and has been appointed Master over the Celestial Heavens (John 10:29, "My Father, who gave them me, is greater than all,") so "that in all things he might have the preeminence." (Colossians 1:18) I believe this to be in accordance with the word of John 14:6, "I am the way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."

I am not a big debater but when it comes to who we should put above all I will stand strong. It is our Father the Almighty, the Creator of Heaven & Earth.

The Trinity IS a man made doctrine and Jesus did not want us to worship him but his Father and your Father! Jesus came to show us the way and true, he is the way, the truth and the life!

I find the poll results so far extremely interesting!
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Old 06-08-2010, 02:37 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Yep, on the partial futurist. And I can see how the kingdoms will or have become his again, after having "lost" them, but I STILL don't understand how the phrase "these kingdoms can be yours" works.

If he (God-Jesus) already knew he was going to die and "claim" them again, why would that temptation matter?? And, if (God-Jesus)HAD given in??

Just pondering.......
I hear you ...

The fact is it didn't work. Satan is a liar, and his promise is worth dung. Christ was not deceived, and new the only way to seize power over creation from the grip of the enemy was to offer himself as a sacrifice. Satan on the other hand played right into Christs hand. In killing Christ Satan thought to be done with it, but that was it most terrible mistake. In killing Christ, he lost his power over creation when Christ resurrected.

The thing is, Satan is not Gods enemy, he is the enemy of mankind. I believe satan was fooled(deceived) into thinking Christ was only a man also, and did not believe he would resurrect.

Satan is a liar, and he is himself deceived ... That is the nature of evil, to eventually work towards its own destruction in the end. It all works out according to Gods purpose, even the fall of Adam, and the deceptions of the enemy. God is not surprised, he just bidding his time in order to make a full reconciliation of all things, and even Satan has a role to play in it(however clueless he may be about the fact). Satan is the proverbial fool who cuts his own nose off to spite his own face, but that is what God created him for to begin with. So that we could come to understand the foolishness of evil, and the wisdom of righteousness in the cosmic play of Good verses evil. In the end, their can be only one, and the end is the same as the beginning, Christ our lord the victor, and God all in all ...




Peace ...
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Old 06-08-2010, 02:48 AM
 
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Ill put it this way, the name of God is Jehovah, spelled "Yod He Vav He" in the Hebrew, or "YHVH" ... The father is the "Yod" in the name, the holy spirit is the first "He", Christ or the son is "Vav", and the spirit incarnate in the church is the final "He" of the name. We are made one with God, and have a part in his name, even as Christ and the holy spirit do, we are co-heirs of the kingdom of heaven.

We are the bride of Christ, and in our being wed to him(symbolically) we become one person with the living God. Just as a man and a woman become one flesh when they come together. This is the mystery of the divine family, and through it the whole world will eventually become one with God, and he will become all in all.

"Know ye not that ye are Gods?"



God bless ...

Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 06-08-2010 at 03:09 AM..
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Old 06-08-2010, 02:58 AM
 
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Remember everyone, just because you cant understand something doesn't make it not true. I don't fully understand Euclidian geometry, but i know it works.

In the same breath i can say i dont understand all the subtleties of Quantum physics, such as "spooky" particle action at a distance, or "quantum entanglement", but i know it exists. There are many things we dont understand about the universe, things we might think to be impossible, but what do we really know anyway? I mean what the heck is a singularity really? A black whole is a rip in the fabric of time space ... What the heck does that really mean? How can you tear a whole in a vacuum ... ? How can something exist with zero volume and infinite mass at the same time? Sometimes you have to accept that fact is stranger than fiction, and even though it seems impossible, like walking on water or raising the dead or God becoming a man, that doesn't mean that it is in fact impossible.

"With God all things are possible."

Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 06-08-2010 at 03:09 AM..
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Old 06-08-2010, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Remember everyone, just because you cant understand something doesn't make it not true. I don't fully understand Euclidian geometry, but i know it works.

In the same breath i can say i dont understand all the subtleties of Quantum physics, such as "spooky" particle action at a distance, or "quantum entanglement", but i know it exists. There are many things we dont understand about the universe, things we might think to be impossible, but what do we really know anyway? I mean what the heck is a singularity really? A black whole is a rip in the fabric of time space ... What the heck does that really mean? How can you tear a whole in a vacuum ... ? How can something exist with zero volume and infinite mass at the same time? Sometimes you have to accept that fact is stranger than fiction, and even though it seems impossible, like walking on water or raising the dead or God becoming a man, that doesn't mean that it is in fact impossible.

"With God all things are possible."
Yet there is a need for speculating about those things perhaps... what need did God have for coming to earth as a human when he could do the same things from heaven with a human as his pawn?

What need is there for a split God? Why bother splitting him up? I could see if there was some evidence (outside the bible) and you were using the bible for clarification but there is no evidence that would lead someone to conclude that God is three in one. If the information is solely gathered from the bible then I must wonder why it would be so vague? If it is true and correct then why don't we see it illuminated in the bible rather than hidden?
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Old 06-08-2010, 11:21 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Ill put it this way, the name of God is Jehovah, spelled "Yod He Vav He" in the Hebrew, or "YHVH" ... The father is the "Yod" in the name, the holy spirit is the first "He", Christ or the son is "Vav", and the spirit incarnate in the church is the final "He" of the name. We are made one with God, and have a part in his name, even as Christ and the holy spirit do, we are co-heirs of the kingdom of heaven.

We are the bride of Christ, and in our being wed to him(symbolically) we become one person with the living God. Just as a man and a woman become one flesh when they come together. This is the mystery of the divine family, and through it the whole world will eventually become one with God, and he will become all in all.

"Know ye not that ye are Gods?"



God bless ...
YHWH is pronounced with vowels, written with four vowels on the turban of the representative of Chirst, the High Priest in Israel [as Josephus informed us]. It is said by each living breathing creature with each intake and outlet of that breath of life. It is the breath of YHWH, and every creature has it stamped, as the manufacturers brand name, who breathes the breath of life.
"Y-H-W-H"!, from the first Y-H! at birth, to the last W-H!, at expiration of the breath of Life, on loan to each breathing creature, His name states His ownership.

We become one in spirit, united to Christ's Living Spirit, only when we are born again in Christ. We are all one in spirit in the dead Adam spirit, which is why we must be born again, from above, into Christ, which is the adoption of us into His name, to see Life.
1Cr 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

All Adam is one spirit [Malachi 2:15 -each has the remnant [the share] of the Adam spirit; one bone, one flesh [male and female], one blood.
This is what the Word of God teaches, but no human being is the other human being, each is their own person, a seed of the Adam plant/tree, so to speak.

Jesus the Christ is in the One YHWH Spirit, and is His own Person, God the Word.

BTW: the "gods" being spoken to in Psalm 82 are the Elohym [sons of God/angels/Watchers] who are the rebel Watchers over earth, who will "die like Adam, the one sar", for their rebellion.
Literally, the Hebrew is saying this, in Psalm 82, speaking to the congregation of judges [the Dan] set over earth...and 6,7 tell them they will die like the fallen sar, Adam. -Adam is irrevocably dead, which is why we must be born again, into the New Man name, to inherit the kingdom of God]
[i] said , [ Ye are] gods; children [most] High.
But [ye shall] die [ like] Adam, fell [the] one sar.
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Old 06-08-2010, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Canada
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Isaiah 9:6-7 [6] For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. [7] Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. ...700 B.C.

This is a perfect example of More scriptures being changed to support the trinity


Read the Septuagint

6 For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him. 7 His government shall be great, and of his peace there is no end: it shall be upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to establish it, and to support it with judgment and with righteousness, from henceforth and forever. The seal of the Lord of hosts shall perform this.


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Old 06-08-2010, 02:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Yet there is a need for speculating about those things perhaps... what need did God have for coming to earth as a human when he could do the same things from heaven with a human as his pawn?

What need is there for a split God? Why bother splitting him up? I could see if there was some evidence (outside the bible) and you were using the bible for clarification but there is no evidence that would lead someone to conclude that God is three in one. If the information is solely gathered from the bible then I must wonder why it would be so vague? If it is true and correct then why don't we see it illuminated in the bible rather than hidden?
Why did God need a human pawn instead of becoming a man himself. The question can go both ways ... I believe God had to become a man who though he was born as the son of mankind was not born of a human man because he would have been prone to sin. Just as Adam was made by God without a human father or even a mother, Christ was born of a woman yet not of a man. He was the second Adam. If Christ had been born of a man then he also would have been born of Adam and would be subjected to the curse of sin and death like every other natural human being. God had to become a man and die for mankind because mankind was not able to do it. No human man or woman born of a both man and woman could achieve the perfection and transcendence that Christ did. If all it took was the holy spirit to empower humans to live free of sin then why doesn't the holy spirit just do that for everyone?


Pro 25:2
It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
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