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View Poll Results: Do you believe in a 3-in-1 God?
Yes 45 57.69%
No 33 42.31%
Voters: 78. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-08-2010, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
2,031 posts, read 2,685,420 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SisterKat View Post
"I have come that they may have Life, and that they may have it more abundantly." (John 10:10) Jesus has received His Divine Love in the highest degree; as a result, of all human souls, Jesus is closest to God, and has been appointed Master over the Celestial Heavens (John 10:29, "My Father, who gave them me, is greater than all,") so "that in all things he might have the preeminence." (Colossians 1:18) I believe this to be in accordance with the word of John 14:6, "I am the way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."

I am not a big debater but when it comes to who we should put above all I will stand strong. It is our Father the Almighty, the Creator of Heaven & Earth.

The Trinity IS a man made doctrine and Jesus did not want us to worship him but his Father and your Father! Jesus came to show us the way and true, he is the way, the truth and the life!

I find the poll results so far extremely interesting!
Jesus was worshipped when He was born, worshipped through His ministry and worshipped when He was resurrected. If Jesus didn't want to be worshipped He would have said "Do not worship me". Worshipping anyone other than God is wrong and Jesus would have told them to stop. I'm not saying Jesus is above the Father as they are one. You need to reread the Bible.
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Old 06-08-2010, 02:41 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,198,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
Isaiah 9:6-7 [6] For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. [7] Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. ...700 B.C.

This is a perfect example of More scriptures being changed to support the trinity


Read the Septuagint

6 For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him. 7 His government shall be great, and of his peace there is no end: it shall be upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to establish it, and to support it with judgment and with righteousness, from henceforth and forever. The seal of the Lord of hosts shall perform this.

We have the English translation of the Hebrew scriptures now ... Who translated the old testament into greek? The scribes ... The same people who rejected Christ as the messiah.

That is not to say the Septuagint is always in error, but i would rather take it back to the Hebrew than to a Greek translation of the Hebrew, just like i would rather go back to the Greek of the New testament than to the Latin.


Lets look then at the interlinear ...

Quote:
ִ
ki
that - that

יֶלֶד
ild
boy - boy

ד1 יֻ ַ
ild
he-is-mborn - he is born

לָנ
l·nu
to·us - to us

ֵ
bn
son - a son

ַ
nthn
he-is-given - is given

לָנ
l·nu
to·us - to us

הִי וַ ְ
u·thei
and·she-shall-become - and shall become

רָה .ְ 8 ה ִ
e·mshre
the·chieftainship - the chieftainship/government

עַל
ol
on - on

כְמ ִ
shkm·u
shoulder-blade-of·him - his shoulders

קְרָא ( וַ ִ
u·iqra
and·he-shall-call - and he shall call

מְ
shm·u
name-of·him - his name

לֶא 9ֶ
phla
one-marvelous - marvelous
+ עֵ י
iuotz
one-counseling - counselor

אֵל
al
El - El/God

ר#)ִ
gbur
masterful - masterful

אֲבִיעַד
abiod
Father-of-future - Father of the future/perpetual father

ר.ַ
shr
chief-of - and chief/prince/king

' לָ
shlum
well-being - of well being/peace
Now compare that to this ...

"For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him.
"


Notice the word " 'ab 'ad " (perpetual father) and " El Gebur " (mighty God) are not translated in the Septuagint? Why?
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Old 06-08-2010, 02:44 PM
 
365 posts, read 424,363 times
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You should have included a third option. "don't know"
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Old 06-08-2010, 02:49 PM
 
2,058 posts, read 4,311,072 times
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No. And quite frankly, I don't believe most Christians believe in a 3-in-one God. The whole concept is confusing and makes absolutely no sense. I believe most people believe out of fear or tradition. Religion is taught, just like math, science or anything else.

Last edited by dorado0359; 06-08-2010 at 02:50 PM.. Reason: ...
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Old 06-08-2010, 02:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme View Post
YHWH is pronounced with vowels, written with four vowels on the turban of the representative of Chirst, the High Priest in Israel [as Josephus informed us]. It is said by each living breathing creature with each intake and outlet of that breath of life. It is the breath of YHWH, and every creature has it stamped, as the manufacturers brand name, who breathes the breath of life.
"Y-H-W-H"!, from the first Y-H! at birth, to the last W-H!, at expiration of the breath of Life, on loan to each breathing creature, His name states His ownership.

We become one in spirit, united to Christ's Living Spirit, only when we are born again in Christ. We are all one in spirit in the dead Adam spirit, which is why we must be born again, from above, into Christ, which is the adoption of us into His name, to see Life.
1Cr 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

All Adam is one spirit [Malachi 2:15 -each has the remnant [the share] of the Adam spirit; one bone, one flesh [male and female], one blood.
This is what the Word of God teaches, but no human being is the other human being, each is their own person, a seed of the Adam plant/tree, so to speak.

Jesus the Christ is in the One YHWH Spirit, and is His own Person, God the Word.

BTW: the "gods" being spoken to in Psalm 82 are the Elohym [sons of God/angels/Watchers] who are the rebel Watchers over earth, who will "die like Adam, the one sar", for their rebellion.
Literally, the Hebrew is saying this, in Psalm 82, speaking to the congregation of judges [the Dan] set over earth...and 6,7 tell them they will die like the fallen sar, Adam. -Adam is irrevocably dead, which is why we must be born again, into the New Man name, to inherit the kingdom of God]
[i] said , [ Ye are] gods; children [most] High.
But [ye shall] die [ like] Adam, fell [the] one sar.

Indeed, but the ancient Hebrew or Chaldean written language had no vowel marks, only consonants ... The vowel points or "Niqqudim" were added some time after the fall of the temple in 70 AD ...
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Old 06-08-2010, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,267 posts, read 20,872,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dorado0359 View Post
No. And quite frankly, I don't believe most Christians believe in a 3-in-one God.
I think they do. Almost all Catholics and a great many Protestants would say they do.

Quote:
The whole concept is confusing and makes absolutely no sense.
Well, yeah.

Quote:
I believe most people believe out of fear or tradition. Religion is taught, just like math, science or anything else.
I'm not sure why fear would be a factor in how a person understands the relationship of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. I don't believe in the Trinity myself, but fear has nothing to do with it one way or the other. Tradition, on the other hand, is probably a huge part of it. People believe what they've always been taught, you're likely to simply accept it. As Thomas Jefferson once said, "It is too late in the day for men of sincerity to pretend they believe in the Platonic mysticisms that three are one and one is three, and yet one is not three and three are not one." People are told that God is somehow three and somehow one but nobody can really explain why. When they start to try to make sense of it, they can't. They start to question and they're told that they're not supposed to be able to understand God and that it's just a mystery they're supposed to accept. They either do that (i.e. just accept it) and stop thinking about it or they continue to think about it and finally realize that it's probably not true after all. God wants us to know Him and to understand Him to the best of our abilities and He is not the author of confusion. Furthermore, He most certainly was not the author of the 4th and 5th century creeds that most Christians insist are true.
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Old 06-08-2010, 03:09 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,198,849 times
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I have a question ...

Jhn 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.


Okay, the word(logos) was with God and the word was God ... So who or what is the word(logos) of God if not Christ? And if Christ is the word of God then here it says the word was God.

Now you may say that the word is no longer God but WAS God, but that would mean that the word is no longer with God as well by the same reasoning, but only WAS with God. However we Know that Christ ascended to on high to sit down in the fathers throne, so that he is now with God as he was in the beginning. And if Christ sits in the throne of God, who can say that he himself then is not God? Does one who is not the king sit in the throne of the King and take the authority of the king? Only such a one who is a usurper. But Christ is no usurper, and he rules from the throne of God in which is is seated, with the authority and glory of God.

Also, if Christ who is the word of God is a made being, who made him if nothing that was made was made without him?

Then we read ...

Jhn 1:14
And the Word became flesh, and did tabernacle among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of an only begotten of a father, full of grace and truth.


So the word of God who was God and was with God in the beginning by whom all things were made, and nothing was made without him, became flesh and dwelt(tabernacle) among us ... Who is this other than Christ? If it is not Christ who here is said to be God and with God and the word of God, then who by God is it?




Peace ...
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Old 06-08-2010, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, BC
823 posts, read 1,081,202 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CantWait2Leave View Post
Jesus was worshipped when He was born, worshipped through His ministry and worshipped when He was resurrected. If Jesus didn't want to be worshipped He would have said "Do not worship me". Worshipping anyone other than God is wrong and Jesus would have told them to stop. I'm not saying Jesus is above the Father as they are one. You need to reread the Bible.

I worship the Father and him only and no one else. I know perfectly well about what the scriptures say about worshipping Christ and Jehovah, but they are speaking in an entirely different sense - the sense of standing in awe and being respectfully grateful to Him who has redeemed us. Worship in the true and saving sense is reserved for The Father first, the Creator."
Nowhere in the Bible does Jesus say 'I am God' or even 'worship me'. Not one time!

The only time he mentions a knee bowing (just like they did to David), is when he returns with authority from God, and every knee shall bow & every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord (King). That is the only time! Any other time people were bowing down to Christ, they did it on their own will, to show the deep love, respect that Christ deserved as the Messiah (king) and Son of God.
The Jews are very serious about God being 1. And in the OT there is prophecy about the Messiah that says “Every knee will bow.” Yet, the Jews ABSOLUTELY do not believe the actual Messiah=God. He is supposed to be an eternal “King/Lord/Messiah” over them. This is exactly what Jesus is. So if the Jews were going to bow & show respect to the Messiah, yet weren’t worshiping him, why do you assume when people do this to Jesus it means worship? Again, they did the same thing to King David, and many others
Jesus says "Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." Matthew 4:10

Jesus says this God is one by repeating the OT declaration "The Lord our God is one Lord" (Mark 12:19) thus showing he didn't bring any new concept of God.

Jesus emphasized that this one God was everybody's God equally including himself "unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God" John 20:17

Jesus makes clear that this one God that sent him is the TRUE God and the ONLY God. "that they (everybody) might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent" John 17:3



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Old 06-08-2010, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, BC
823 posts, read 1,081,202 times
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Default Keep It Simple

The trinity is complicated. Any religion which requires the exercise of the mental faculties to an extent greater than what is required in the ordinary affairs of life, cannot be a true religion; because God has designed that all his children shall understand His truths without the necessity of having a highly developed mind.
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Old 06-08-2010, 03:58 PM
 
2,058 posts, read 4,311,072 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I'm not sure why fear would be a factor in how a person understands the relationship of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. [/font]
The basis of Christianity is FAITH. If a Catholic and Protestant believer is so confident, that voids the use and purpose of faith.

Some Christian faiths believe that the belief in the three (Father, Son and Holy Ghost) is a requirement for entry into "The Kingdom". Therefore, there may be some who believe (or think they believe) in one, two or all three of the trinities, simply because they fear the consequences (hell or damnation) of not believing.
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