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Old 06-11-2013, 02:17 PM
 
794 posts, read 554,227 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alte hornise View Post
IF,and that's IF I squeeze into heaven, I haven't the least interest in boasting. Do you?
The interest doesn't matter. What matters is do you have the ability? Anyone who believes in Jesus cannot boast of salvation because it is a gift so it doesn't matter if you have the interest what matters is your actual ability to.
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Old 06-11-2013, 02:20 PM
 
794 posts, read 554,227 times
Reputation: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
Folks, there is no where in the bible where Jesus says that now that you are saved by his blood, you no longer have to obey any of Gods commands. Works don't save your soul, but when you get saved and follow Jesus, it causes you to do great works.


These verses are 1000% proof that you cant live these lifestyle and get into the kingdom of heaven, so being saved does require you to live a holy life. Works wont save you with out faith in Jesus Christ, but Faith without works is DEAD.


Galatians 5:19-21
New King James Version (NKJV)
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[a] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders,[b] drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.


1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.


Ephesians 5:5
5 For this you know,[a] that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.


Revelation 21:8
8 But the cowardly, unbelieving,[a] abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
So I guess all the people who get saved on their death beds or in a battle field who are moments from death are doomed because they don't have some works to bring with them before God eh? Grace empowers a believer to do good. Sinners sin because they are sinners. We don't become sinners because we sin. Salvation has nothing to do with works. Believers become empowered to do good when they hear and believe God loves them. Don't sprinkle your human reasoning into God's word or you will end up putting people under bondage.
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Old 06-11-2013, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
10,942 posts, read 4,630,556 times
Reputation: 1123
Quote:
Originally Posted by romans519 View Post
What do you mean if? Do you believe in Jesus and His finished work at the cross? If you do then you're saved. No one squeezes into Heaven. Everyone who ends up in Heaven is there simply because they believe in Jesus.
The Catholic Church teaches belief in Jesus!

THAT ought to end the Catholic bashing.
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Old 06-11-2013, 02:24 PM
 
794 posts, read 554,227 times
Reputation: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
Folks, there is no where in the bible where Jesus says that now that you are saved by his blood, you no longer have to obey any of Gods commands. Works don't save your soul, but when you get saved and follow Jesus, it causes you to do great works.


These verses are 1000% proof that you cant live these lifestyle and get into the kingdom of heaven, so being saved does require you to live a holy life. Works wont save you with out faith in Jesus Christ, but Faith without works is DEAD.


Galatians 5:19-21
New King James Version (NKJV)
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[a] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders,[b] drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.


1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.


Ephesians 5:5
5 For this you know,[a] that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.


Revelation 21:8
8 But the cowardly, unbelieving,[a] abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
SAAN, anyone who lives these lifestyles and claims to be a believer is a professor but not a possessor. Don't be confused into thinking anyone who believes in the grace of God is advocating universal salvation because we are not. But anyone who believes in Jesus will be empowered to do good and not evil, but it doesn't mean that believers cannot fall into sin because they can. If someone says they are saved but yet lives the lifestyles mentioned in these versus WITHOUT spiritual guilt is a professor and not a possessor. If you feel guilt for the bad things you do its a sure sign you're born again.


Joseph Prince - The Battle For Your Mind - 27 Nov 11 - YouTube

Last edited by romans519; 06-11-2013 at 02:45 PM..
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Old 06-11-2013, 02:37 PM
 
132 posts, read 117,269 times
Reputation: 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
The Catholic Church teaches belief in Jesus!

THAT ought to end the Catholic bashing.
Don't hold your breath! You know, I can't say that I've ever heard a Catholic bashing other Christian denominations, but they are sure bloody enthusiastic about "enlightening" us about the "faults" of Holy Mother the Church.
SO self-righteous, so much posturing, and such IGNORANCE!!!
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Old 06-11-2013, 02:53 PM
 
3,360 posts, read 2,794,671 times
Reputation: 2310
Quote:
Originally Posted by romans519 View Post
So I guess all the people who get saved on their death beds or in a battle field who are moments from death are doomed because they don't have some works to bring with them before God eh? Grace empowers a believer to do good. Sinners sin because they are sinners. We don't become sinners because we sin. Salvation has nothing to do with works. Believers become empowered to do good when they hear and believe God loves them. Don't sprinkle your human reasoning into God's word or you will end up putting people under bondage.
Im not saying if you don't have works, your doomed. Im saying too many Christians think because they are saved by grace they don't have to follow Gods commands or think no big deal to break them because they are saved by grace.

Following God's commands (Non sacrifical or ceremonial laws) is not bondage, it just shows you Love him. Now if you think following the laws will save you and being a good person will save you, that's when you are doomed for rejecting the free gift of grace. You have to live holy, that is why I posted those verses because many get saved and continue to be alcoholics, live sexually immoral lifestyles and think nothing is wrong because they confessed with their mouth and believe in their heart Jesus is lord so they are saved.
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Old 06-11-2013, 02:59 PM
 
794 posts, read 554,227 times
Reputation: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
Im not saying if you don't have works, your doomed. Im saying too many Christians think because they are saved by grace they don't have to follow Gods commands or think no big deal to break them because they are saved by grace.

Following God's commands (Non sacrifical or ceremonial laws) is not bondage, it just shows you Love him. Now if you think following the laws will save you and being a good person will save you, that's when you are doomed for rejecting the free gift of grace. You have to live holy, that is why I posted those verses because many get saved and continue to be alcoholics, live sexually immoral lifestyles and think nothing is wrong because they confessed with their mouth and believe in their heart Jesus is lord so they are saved.
This reasoning turns faith into a work. Do not tell a believer they HAVE to do something to be saved. As I said, when you rest in the finished work of Jesus then holiness is by accident. The moment you believe or say you "have" to do something with your faith then you have turned faith into a work. Most churches do this and they don't even realize is. Faith is not a work. Faith is nothing more than seeing Jesus and when you do that, holiness manifests in your life and happens by accident.
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Old 06-11-2013, 03:00 PM
Status: "Banished by childish, petulant mods with tudes" (set 2 days ago)
 
19,952 posts, read 10,452,842 times
Reputation: 1937
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
The Catholic Church teaches belief in Jesus!

THAT ought to end the Catholic bashing.
Yet, I can show from the Catechism of the Catholic church, which is a thorough documentation of official Catholic teaching, where you are required to do good works to maintain your salvation. If you believe in the official teaching of the Catholic church, it's a little more than just believing in Jesus.
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Old 06-11-2013, 03:11 PM
 
794 posts, read 554,227 times
Reputation: 117
Let me give you an example of how people turn faith into a work. Wen I was growing up and attending church with my family my mom always said that you have to go down the aisle at the end of church and confess to the preacher that you want to be saved and then the next Sunday you have to get water baptized to get saved. This made me very worried for years because I was an extremely shy person and I was always afraid to be around. Every Sunday I could see the disappointment in my mom's face when I wouldn't go up to do it. And all along this is what I believed because its the only thing I was taught and knew. Something inside of me though always told me that this is wrong and heresy. I never did it and to this day (I'm 26 now) I don't think my mom believes I am saved because I have not gotten water baptized. Now over time this built up a lot of fear and anger inside of me almost to the point that I became angry at God for demanding something from me to be saved. It just didn't feel right that the only people who are saved are those who go up in front of a church and get baptized. If that's true then Heaven is going to be a lonely place. The truth is that its not true. Water baptism is nothing more than an act of faith but let me ask you something. If someone tells you that you have to do something to get saved, is it still an act of faith? No its not. It is now a work. Now because this was the way I was raised I can never get water baptized in good faith. In my heart I will always have a nagging feeling saying I'm only doing it because I don't believe I am saved by grace through faith.

The point I'm trying to make is that if you tell someone they have to do something to get saved then anything they do is not an act of faith. But if you tell someone about Jesus, His grace, His love, His mercy and how much all of that is for that person then that person well get baptized out of faith and go on to live a holy life by accident.
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Old 06-11-2013, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
10,942 posts, read 4,630,556 times
Reputation: 1123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Yet, I can show from the Catechism of the Catholic church, which is a thorough documentation of official Catholic teaching, where you are required to do good works to maintain your salvation. If you believe in the official teaching of the Catholic church, it's a little more than just believing in Jesus.
So, they add things. The point was that it is faith in Jesus that saves, they teach that.
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