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Old 07-10-2011, 04:02 PM
 
18,277 posts, read 9,044,461 times
Reputation: 1525

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Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.


John 3:10

Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that asks you for a drink; you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water.”

Acts 15:11


No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord (Jesus) that we are saved, just as they are…


Romans 3:24

…And are justified freely by his Grace through the redemption that came by and through Christ Jesus.


Romans 9:16

Therefore, it does not depend on man’s desire or effort; but on His Mercy.

Your own acceptance is worthless, having no merit; and you will not receive any reward or commendation for it.

[It] only justifies the thought of rejection within the minds of men who seek to condemn others. Now, isn’t that special?


If the sky is clear, expect good weather!
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Old 08-06-2011, 03:53 PM
 
1,116 posts, read 996,781 times
Reputation: 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by katiemygirl View Post
God in His soveriegnty has given us free will to choose or reject Him. That is how it is! By grace you are saved through faith. But it is your choice whether to believe and obey Him or not; whether to accept His free gift of grace or not.

Katie
Not true!

Man cannot have a true faith in god without spiritual understanding. And who is responsible for granting this understanding? God....via the holy spirit. Those who are dead in sin are not able to understand as they are "spiritually discerned."
Rom 3:10-12 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

1 Cor 2:14 ”But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life
Jesus died for the "believers". And who exactly are the believers? Those whom god has chosen to grant belief/understanding to.
Acts 13:48 As the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God. As many as were appointed to eternal life, believed.

Galatians 3:22 But the Scriptures imprisoned all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Philippians 1:29 Because it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in him, but also to suffer on his behalf

John 10:26
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you
God grants belief (via spiritual understanding) to whoever he wants based on his own purposes and mercy. The above verse shows that for those who do not believe, it is because (due to the fact that) we are not of god's sheep. It doesn't say that we are not of god's sheep because we do not believe. Quite the opposite.

Romans 9:11 For being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him who calls,

Rom. 8:30, "and whom He predestined, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified."

27"All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

Hebrews 9:15 (New International Version)
15For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.
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Old 08-06-2011, 04:24 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,233,692 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Like I said to Finn-

If you are offered salvation (most will agree that the offer is to everyone) and must accept it for it to count then which is it that causes you to be saved? The offer or the acceptance?

Obviously the acceptance (choice) is what saved you because had you ignored the offer you would be left unsaved. Therefore, LOGICALLY, it is the acceptance (which the person does) that saves. The person saves themselves.

Exactly ... Unfortunately traditional fundamental Christianity is severely lacking in anything that even remotely resembles logic or reason.
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Old 08-06-2011, 04:27 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,233,692 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by mythunderstood View Post
Not true!

Man cannot have a true faith in god without spiritual understanding. And who is responsible for granting this understanding? God....via the holy spirit. Those who are dead in sin are not able to understand as they are "spiritually discerned."
Rom 3:10-12 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

1 Cor 2:14 ”But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life
Jesus died for the "believers". And who exactly are the believers? Those whom god has chosen to grant belief/understanding to.
Acts 13:48 As the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God. As many as were appointed to eternal life, believed.

Galatians 3:22 But the Scriptures imprisoned all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Philippians 1:29 Because it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in him, but also to suffer on his behalf

John 10:26
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you
God grants belief (via spiritual understanding) to whoever he wants based on his own purposes and mercy. The above verse shows that for those who do not believe, it is because (due to the fact that) we are not of god's sheep. It doesn't say that we are not of god's sheep because we do not believe. Quite the opposite.

Romans 9:11 For being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him who calls,

Rom. 8:30, "and whom He predestined, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified."

27"All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

Hebrews 9:15 (New International Version)
15For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.
Good word study, but again generally speaking traditional fundamentalist Christians do not care what the scriptures actually say about anything, instead they prefer the traditional interpretations of scriptures that their preachers spoon feed them from the pulpit, so that they cant see the forest for the trees.
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