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Old 06-03-2010, 09:54 PM
 
20,322 posts, read 15,674,976 times
Reputation: 7436

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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Well, thank goodness you are not a Calvinist. But, explain to me how God has done everything he could for everybody but the North Koreans? If you know what I mean.
Jesus died for the sins of the world. For everyone. Those who place their faith in Him are saved. The Gospel message is the means by which the message of salvation is communicated to man. In His omniscience, God knew from the recesses of eternity past those who would, upon reaching the point of God consciousness, desire to know something about God.

As the human race increased and spread throughout the world, the knowledge of God went with them. But in time, whole groups and populations of people turned from the true God to worship idols. The knowledge of the true God was forgotten. Whole groups of people and entire generations of people may have no desire to know the true God. But no matter how geographically isolated a people(s) may be, if there is even one person in a populational group who expresses a curiosity to know about God upon grasping the concept of a supreme being, then God will see to it that through missionary activity and such, that the Gospel gets to that person. God took care of that in His counsel of divine decrees. Actually one big decree in eternity past.

Where there is no positive volition, God has no responsibility to get the Gospel to that place. Hearing the Gospel doesn't mean that a particular person will respond to it with positive volition, but God answers their desire (curiosity) and gives them the opportunity to be exposed to the truth regarding Jesus Christ.

God doesn't leave anyone who is positive at the point of God consciousness without the opportunity to be presented with the Gospel. Whether they are positive toward the Gospel or not, is up to them.
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Old 06-03-2010, 10:11 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,574,939 times
Reputation: 1584
I wonder how those who lived before Jesus came into the world will get their chance at salvation???

Heartsong, with tongue in cheek (please don't try to explain the answer to me!)
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Old 06-04-2010, 12:19 AM
 
20,322 posts, read 15,674,976 times
Reputation: 7436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
I wonder how those who lived before Jesus came into the world will get their chance at salvation???

Heartsong, with tongue in cheek (please don't try to explain the answer to me!)
Immediately after Adam sinned, God gave the promise of the Messiah who would come into the world in the fullness of time (Genesis 3:15). Salvation has always been through faith in the Messiah. Those who lived before Christ came, looked forward to the Cross. Those who live after the Cross, look back at the Cross.

Last edited by Mike555; 06-04-2010 at 12:42 AM..
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Old 06-04-2010, 12:23 AM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,496,636 times
Reputation: 47457
you gave alota citations to support but you know it does not come with an insurance policy.
jimmy swaggart does a lota oh lord my savior, but he is standing on a banana peel.
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Old 06-04-2010, 04:11 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,113,870 times
Reputation: 866
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
What do the Scriptures themselves say but this...

John 3:16 ''For God so loved the world that He gave His uniquely born (monogenes) Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Those who do not believe in Christ are going to perish.

John 3:18 He who believes in Him is not judged; but he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the uniquely born Son of God.

Those born into the world are born already under the penalty of sin, which is spiritual death. Separation from God in time. No relationship with God. Those who depart this life having never received Jesus Christ as their Savior lose their opportunity to do so and continue through eternity with no relationship with God. Forever separated from God.

John 3:36 ''He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides (remains) on him.

One has eternal life; the other shall not see life (not cessation of existance, but eternal ruin and uselessness in torment in the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels)

John 8:23 And He was saying to them, ''You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. 24) ''I said therefore to you that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am (the word 'He' is not found in the orginal), you shall die in your sins.''

Jesus made it clear that you must believe that He is God. His statement that He is 'I am' is a direct declaration of His deity. He was claiming the divine name for Himself (Exodus 3:14). In John 8:58 He had made the following statement. ''...Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'' Those who die not believing in Christ, and if you don't believe in the deity of Christ, you don't believe in the real Jesus; die in their sins. They remain under judgment, which is spiritual death parlayed into the second death, which is eternal separation from God in the lake of fire.

Matthew 10:28 ''And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

This is a direct statement from Jesus to fear God, who in absolute justice and righteousness, must send into the eternal fire, those who don't receive Him as Savior.

Revelation 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.


Why therefore, do you ask me my opinion, as if what I think about it has any bearing on the reality of the matter?

Why then do you ask if declaring the truth to a lost and dying world is of help, when those who listen will be saved?

To what end do you ask if I have any joy or rest in God who, in perfect and absolute holiness, justly leaves in eternal condemnation, those who refuse His offer of salvation, when that very same absolute holiness guarantees the eternal security of those who do receive His offer of salvation?

God has done all He can do, short of coercing the volition of man, to save man. Those who end up in the lake of fire have only themselves to blame. My joy and rest in God are not affected by the foolish decisions of the lost who reject the one way that God could provide salvation for them.

Best wishes to you Mike,
brian
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Old 06-04-2010, 06:43 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,534 posts, read 31,926,753 times
Reputation: 9415
Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
And, when we do "prove it" as you say, you reply with a, "nope, you are so wrong.". What is anybody going to say to that?.
That settles the debate. When you can't prove your claims, it can only mean one thing.

Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 06-04-2010 at 06:54 AM..
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Old 06-04-2010, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,574,939 times
Reputation: 1584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
you gave alota citations to support but you know it does not come with an insurance policy.
jimmy swaggart does a lota oh lord my savior, but he is standing on a banana peel.
You mean our relationship with the most high God is not just about saying the right words?
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Old 06-04-2010, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,282 posts, read 20,911,116 times
Reputation: 9965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
To avoid being eternally separated from God, simply receive Jesus Christ as your personal Savior.

Acts 16:31 ''...Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved...''

John 3:16 ''For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Eternal salvation is that simple.
Yippee! I qualify!
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Old 06-04-2010, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,395,647 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
What do the Scriptures themselves say but this...

John 3:16 ''For God so loved the world that He gave His uniquely born (monogenes) Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Those who do not believe in Christ are going to perish.

John 3:18 He who believes in Him is not judged; but he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the uniquely born Son of God.

Those born into the world are born already under the penalty of sin, which is spiritual death. Separation from God in time. No relationship with God. Those who depart this life having never received Jesus Christ as their Savior lose their opportunity to do so and continue through eternity with no relationship with God. Forever separated from God.

John 3:36 ''He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides (remains) on him.

One has eternal life; the other shall not see life (not cessation of existance, but eternal ruin and uselessness in torment in the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels)

John 8:23 And He was saying to them, ''You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. 24) ''I said therefore to you that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am (the word 'He' is not found in the orginal), you shall die in your sins.''

Jesus made it clear that you must believe that He is God. His statement that He is 'I am' is a direct declaration of His deity. He was claiming the divine name for Himself (Exodus 3:14). In John 8:58 He had made the following statement. ''...Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'' Those who die not believing in Christ, and if you don't believe in the deity of Christ, you don't believe in the real Jesus; die in their sins. They remain under judgment, which is spiritual death parlayed into the second death, which is eternal separation from God in the lake of fire.

Matthew 10:28 ''And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

This is a direct statement from Jesus to fear God, who in absolute justice and righteousness, must send into the eternal fire, those who don't receive Him as Savior.

Revelation 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.


Why therefore, do you ask me my opinion, as if what I think about it has any bearing on the reality of the matter?

Why then do you ask if declaring the truth to a lost and dying world is of help, when those who listen will be saved?

To what end do you ask if I have any joy or rest in God who, in perfect and absolute holiness, justly leaves in eternal condemnation, those who refuse His offer of salvation, when that very same absolute holiness guarantees the eternal security of those who do receive His offer of salvation?

God has done all He can do, short of coercing the volition of man, to save man. Those who end up in the lake of fire have only themselves to blame. My joy and rest in God are not affected by the foolish decisions of the lost who reject the one way that God could provide salvation for them.
Mike... is there any reason why you quoted John 3:16 and 3:18 but left out 3:17? For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

God sent his son into the same world that he is saving... Yet you left that out.. I suppose because it does not support your agenda..

That is kinda deceiving, isn't it?
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Old 06-04-2010, 10:53 AM
 
139 posts, read 165,797 times
Reputation: 44
to show love, patience, kindness, self control, gentleness. etc .. yummy fruits of the spirit..
is how we share truth
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